it could have been one of us

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it could have been one of us

Postby windwalker on Sun May 28, 2017 6:58 am

PORTLAND, Ore. (AP) — Police said Saturday they'll examine what appears to be the extremist ideology of an Oregon man accused of fatally stabbing two men who tried to intervene when the suspect yelled racial slurs at two young women who appeared to be Muslim on a Portland light-rail train.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/police-ident ... 27015.html

Many of us study CMA, and take the craft very seriously.
I'm sure most if not all here would have stepped up...
Just a reminder that someone with a knife even if not trained can be deadly.

Would this have met your threshold for intervention?

What would should or could they have done that might have
had a different ending?
Last edited by windwalker on Sun May 28, 2017 7:05 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: it could have been one of us

Postby Peacedog on Sun May 28, 2017 7:14 am

In many ways knives are worse than guns.

In a conflict with firearms, you may or may not get shot.

In a conflict with a knife you are pretty much guaranteed to get cut.
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Re: it could have been one of us

Postby yeniseri on Sun May 28, 2017 1:33 pm

My problem is that the man who committed the crime was a terrorist but sadly, he can never be seen as that based on the present practice pattern of law enforcement indictments (in a general way and not specific) In other words only the 'Muslim/Arab/etc is the terrorist
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Re: it could have been one of us

Postby windwalker on Sun May 28, 2017 1:46 pm

yeniseri wrote:My problem is that the man who committed the crime was a terrorist but sadly, he can never be seen as that based on the present practice pattern of law enforcement indictments (in a general way and not specific) In other words only the 'Muslim/Arab/etc is the terrorist


So you don't have a problem with the fact that he killed one person and injured the other person but you do have a problem with the way he is perceived, makes sense. :-\

I would respectfully ask that if you cannot address the questions either start your own thread or don't post, thank you.
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Re: it could have been one of us

Postby grzegorz on Sun May 28, 2017 3:55 pm

Best was a vet who served from 23 years.

https://www.buzzfeed.com/juliareinstein ... ho#4ldqpho
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities." - Voltaire
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Re: it could have been one of us

Postby grzegorz on Sun May 28, 2017 4:02 pm

windwalker wrote:
yeniseri wrote:My problem is that the man who committed the crime was a terrorist but sadly, he can never be seen as that based on the present practice pattern of law enforcement indictments (in a general way and not specific) In other words only the 'Muslim/Arab/etc is the terrorist


So you don't have a problem with the fact that he killed one person and injured the other person but you do have a problem with the way he is perceived, makes sense. :-\

I would respectfully ask that if you cannot address the questions either start your own thread or don't post, thank you.


Well Wind, you obviously knew that the man was and is a white supremist. Therefore it is impossible for this not to come up. Yes, the man is terrorist and succeeded in spreading terror.

As to your question having recently seen a scuffle in front of a Wal-Mart where someone was caught stealing and attacked an employee before security could have arrived I would say nothing short of two hands on the attacking arm because these things happen so quickly. I was wondering what I should do when I saw an employee get slammed but I was ten feet away and it was too late. These things happen so fast and thinking isn't an option.

Obviously if you had a weapon and thought you could stop it this would be ideal but who is to say that at close range you would not have been stabbed? When the multuple police surrounded him on the sidewalk he ordered them to just shoot him. This man was willing to die as are all terrorists.
Last edited by grzegorz on Sun May 28, 2017 4:14 pm, edited 5 times in total.
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Re: it could have been one of us

Postby windwalker on Sun May 28, 2017 5:49 pm

Well Wind, you obviously knew that the man was and is a white supremist. Therefore it is impossible for this not to come up. Yes, the man is terrorist and succeeded in spreading terror.


It came up because some people here are racist and view things thought this lens.
The man is not a terrorists and has not been charged as such as far as I know.

You should stick to speaking for your self, what I knew was what I read in the article.

I posted it here thinking that it might be of interest in that 2 people one killed the other injured in attempting
to prevent 1 person from verbally harassing someone.


I guess this the way the thread will go,,,,feel free to carry on...
Last edited by windwalker on Sun May 28, 2017 5:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: it could have been one of us

Postby grzegorz on Sun May 28, 2017 6:40 pm

It came up because some people here are racists?

Right, right....
Last edited by grzegorz on Sun May 28, 2017 6:50 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: it could have been one of us

Postby grzegorz on Mon May 29, 2017 12:05 am

Image
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Re: it could have been one of us

Postby grzegorz on Mon May 29, 2017 12:37 pm

From what I am reading things happened so fast that there really would not have been a chance to think of a "plan."

Basically the terrorist was threatening the women and an argument ensued between the terrorist and other riders and the terrorist started stabbing people and the women ran away fearing for their lives.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/05/29/us/portla ... index.html

Being that I have seen more assaults that I care to remember that is pretty much how things go down.
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Re: it could have been one of us

Postby grzegorz on Mon May 29, 2017 2:16 pm

Last edited by grzegorz on Mon May 29, 2017 2:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: it could have been one of us

Postby Ian C. Kuzushi on Mon May 29, 2017 8:02 pm

Pointing out that the attacker was a racist is racist? Yup, that is certainly in line with WW's logic.

Funny, I couldn't help but wonder at first what WW meant by the title... :-X

Edit: These attacks will simply continue and increase as the alt-right and neo-fascists continue to be protected (ie encouraged) by reactionaries, conservatives, and closet racists. This is, IMO, directly linked to the increasing brazenness and popularity of ultra-nationalist groups.
Last edited by Ian C. Kuzushi on Mon May 29, 2017 8:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: it could have been one of us

Postby windwalker on Mon May 29, 2017 8:26 pm

Ian C. Kuzushi wrote:Pointing out that the attacker was a racist is racist? Yup, that is certainly in line with WW's logic.

Funny, I couldn't help but wonder at first what WW meant by the title... :-X

Edit: These attacks will simply continue and increase as the alt-right and neo-fascists continue to be protected (ie encouraged) by reactionaries, conservatives, and closet racists. This is, IMO, directly linked to the increasing brazenness and popularity of ultra-nationalist groups.


What did the man do that warranted 3 people basically attacking him for saying some stupid shit.
Who decides what is correct speech and what is hate speech.
No, there’s no “hate speech” exception to the First Amendment
the City of St. Paul tried to specifically punish bigoted fighting words, the Supreme Court held that this selective prohibition was unconstitutional (R.A.V. v. City of St. Paul (1992)), even though a broad ban on all fighting words would indeed be permissible


https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/vol ... 811daad406



The post was prompted in that most of us would have probably have said something to the asshole no matter what he was saying
racist or not...The race part was not something I even focused on, its not how I view the world...The guy was an asshole. I've dealt with assholes before I'm sure many others have too.

As a CMA or MA artist the basic question was one of how could it have been handled differently.
He scared some people on a street car, He did not touch, harm or threaten,
them according to the article I posted. Harming or threatening to do so would have been a crime.


The others responded just as many might have here.

The man felt threatened, does not say who touched who first and responded
to an attack by "3" people killing one and injuring the others with a knife.

What law did the man break if its determined that he responded to an attack.

Could it have been handled differently, if so how?

My focus was on the event, not the motive for the event...
assholes are assholes every one can be one,
we all have one. :P
Last edited by windwalker on Mon May 29, 2017 8:37 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: it could have been one of us

Postby grzegorz on Mon May 29, 2017 10:30 pm

Oh! So the Nazi could have been anyone one of us....
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Re: it could have been one of us

Postby windwalker on Mon May 29, 2017 10:50 pm

grzegorz wrote:Oh! So the Nazi could have been anyone one of us....


if you don't have anything to add to the topic, I've already asked others not to post...
If you feel you must post,,,

carry on I'm out..

"it could have been one of us"
all of us, I would assume practice some type of martial arts
and are good people....

We both served in the military protecting "all" US citizens even those we don't or didn't agree with
the post was triggered by an event on a street car that kind of reminded me of a recent event I had with an asshole on
a street car,, BART.

yelling shit at people while sitting down,,,Had my wife with me at the time, I got up and asked him to chill out.
thinking back on it, it was not probably a good thing to do..had he tried to stand up, its not something I would have allowed him to do.
I think he sensed this and did not try to...

Thinking back on it, probably not a smart thing to have done.
The 3 guys probably felt safe in numbers, the guy had a knife and now one is a
dead hero....instead of a live body going home to meet his loved ones and family if he had one..

Instead of de escalation it they took to the next level.
The guy was arrested but its not clear on what he will be charged with.

Who confronted who, why, and what was the threat.

Its a news story for now, in a few days it wont be.
the guy who died will be dead for ever...he an't coming back.
Last edited by windwalker on Mon May 29, 2017 10:57 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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