Mayweather vs. Mcgregor

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Re: Mayweather vs. Mcgregor

Postby GrahamB on Wed Sep 06, 2017 2:15 am

True - a lot of McGregor's punches that landed just seemed to have no effect on Floyd. I wonder why that was - I've heard a lot of theories - "too much Ido Portal playing tag" seems to be a popular one. The size of the gloves must also made a difference. It's crazy that when Conor's left hand touches you in MMA you go to sleep or fall down, and in boxing you just keep walking forward.

Steve - what a True Believer(tm) believes really isn't worth much consideration in any field, I believe :)
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Re: Mayweather vs. Mcgregor

Postby Steve James on Wed Sep 06, 2017 4:26 am

Well, really, the point of the whole exercise had nothing to do with boxing. McGregor supporters made the match and made the ppv. So, when you say "everyone expected," I can't agree. They were betting on McG. In fact, he always had a puncher's chance.

Turned out that Mayweather hit harder, and McGregor didn't hit hard enough to stop him.
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Re: Mayweather vs. Mcgregor

Postby marvin8 on Wed Sep 06, 2017 8:30 am

GrahamB wrote:True - a lot of McGregor's punches that landed just seemed to have no effect on Floyd. I wonder why that was - I've heard a lot of theories - "too much Ido Portal playing tag" seems to be a popular one. The size of the gloves must also made a difference.

Because, not many punches landed flush on Floyd. McGregor's best punch in the fight was the counter left uppercut, to Floyd's straight right. However, it hit Floyd's chest, first; taking some of the power off. Also, Floyd's body is relaxed and transitioning to defense, as he usually does (yin/yang). Well, Ido's "rubber arms" did not help to train whole body power.

GrahamB wrote:It's crazy that when Conor's left hand touches you in MMA you go to sleep or fall down, and in boxing you just keep walking forward.

Conor's left hand was making a few MMA fighters "go to sleep or fall down," not elite boxers. Floyd tested McGregor's power early and did not respect it. That's why, in atypical fashion, Floyd continued coming forward tiring McGregor out, before finishing him. "In boxing you just keep walking forward," because you only need to defend against punches to the front of the body from the waist up. Unlike, MMA where there is a multitude of attacks.

Boxing has higher levels. This fight has shown that just having power and hitting at different angles is not enough to win a boxing match, against an elite boxer. There a lot more skills to learn within the sport of boxing. I would not consider McGregor an elite boxer, yet.
marvin8 wrote:McGregor's boxing is impressive against UFC fighters, not professional boxers . . . The problem is this is a boxing match, under boxing rules. McGregor is an amateur boxer, not professional. The range, setups (e.g., no kicks, teeps, limited hand fighting with closed gloves) and attacks are not the same in boxing.

I have not seen McGregor's ability to: jab, inside fight, body punches (He is a head hunter), defense (other than pull counter, use feet to move, not enough variety, too predictable showing patterns), bob and weave, slip punches, head movement, cut off the ring, set up punches, box backing up and fight against the ropes. McGregor seems to stand tall and be stiff in the hips, although he has good balance. His angles and positioning before and after punches is limited. His footwork and pivoting is also lacking.
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Re: Mayweather vs. Mcgregor

Postby everything on Wed Sep 06, 2017 10:55 am

more Qs

- McGregor is considered to be a good striker within UFC, and arguably best lb-for-lb fighter in UFC.
- after this match, assume he knows how to, and does improve his boxing quite a bit
- how do those improvements help his mma skill in a usable way, if at all? are all those skills helpful to his mma game?

very hypothetical. is he even going to continue?
also, will his mma pay go way up?
maybe he will keep going in boxing?
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Re: Mayweather vs. Mcgregor

Postby Steve James on Wed Sep 06, 2017 4:58 pm

He could try to challenge Lomachenko, Golovkin, Canelo, or even an aging Pacquiao, if he considers himself a boxer.
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Re: Mayweather vs. Mcgregor

Postby Strange on Thu Sep 07, 2017 2:02 am

hur hur it was all a show
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Re: Mayweather vs. Mcgregor

Postby marvin8 on Thu Sep 07, 2017 8:09 am

everything wrote:more Qs

- McGregor is considered to be a good striker within UFC, and arguably best lb-for-lb fighter in UFC.
- after this match, assume he knows how to, and does improve his boxing quite a bit
- how do those improvements help his mma skill in a usable way, if at all? are all those skills helpful to his mma game?

McGregor’s plan was not to box, but attack Mayweather in an MMA style. Therefore, they did not hire a boxing coach. McGregor’s training was not focused on improving his boxing skills.

I don’t see McGregor bringing much change to his fighting style in MMA. In fact, it might hinder his performance. Because, he has not been working on his weaker points, which is grappling. In the meantime, his former opponent Jose Aldo is improving his boxing skills by training with boxing trainer Robert Garcia.

everything wrote:very hypothetical. is he even going to continue?
also, will his mma pay go way up?
maybe he will keep going in boxing?

People say the next fight will be McGregor vs Nate Diaz III by the end of the year.
Yes, McGregor's pay will increase along with his increase in popularity.
IMO, McGregor would be KO'd by the top ten boxers in the 154 lb division. However, a Malignaggi fight (spectacle event) may bring some interest by the fans.

Othewise, I don't see McGregor doing much in boxing. As Mayweather said, he could have made the fight more boring by not letting McGregor touch him. Mayweather hardly used any of his usual boxing skills against McGregor, as he felt it wasn't necessary.
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Re: Mayweather vs. Mcgregor

Postby marvin8 on Fri Sep 08, 2017 5:25 am

everything wrote:more Qs

- McGregor is considered to be a good striker within UFC, and arguably best lb-for-lb fighter in UFC.
- after this match, assume he knows how to, and does improve his boxing quite a bit
- how do those improvements help his mma skill in a usable way, if at all? are all those skills helpful to his mma game?

Here is a more general answer, not specific to McGregor's recent training. I thought this was a good article covering the benefits of training boxing, Why ALL Fighters Should Learn Boxing, https://www.expertboxing.com/boxing-basics/how-to-box/why-all-fighters-should-learn-boxing

Some excerpts:
JOHNNY N, OCTOBER 17, 2013 wrote:All fighters, mixed martial artists, could benefit from learning how to box. Even if you don’t care for boxing techniques or boxing punches, you could still learn a lot. Boxing can make you a better athlete, improve your reflexes, make you smoother, and more comfortable in a fight. There’s a reason why all MMA camps have dedicated boxing trainers on staff.

Here are my 5 reasons why EVERY FIGHTER should pick up some boxing skills:

1. Punching functionality

The benefit of boxing punches:
• more power
• more speed
• more angles
• more efficiency
• more versatility
• better precision
• better timing
• better punching functionality overall

2. Reflex speed

The benefit of a boxer’s reflexes:
• faster attacking reflexes
• faster defending reflexes
• improved multi-tasking abilities (simultaneous offense & defense)
• improve overall natural fighting reflexes

3. Slickness

The benefit of a boxer’s slickness:
• increased efficiency
• ability to completely relax in a fight
• ability to completely shut down opponent’s attacks
• developed artistic expression and fight identity

4. Full intensity combat

The benefits of boxing sparring:
• practice/experience a brutal “fight” in a controlled environment
• experience the rawness of a fight at full intensity
• practice all your offensive and defensive weapons in actual combat mode
• learn how to deal with fight or flight reactions
• learn more realistic fighting methods
• great for building confidence and becoming relaxed in a fight

5. Collective Skill Environment

Benefits of a boxing environment:
• surrounded by pure fighters
• many fighters, many trainers, many styles, all battle-tested
• collective knowledge from centuries of experience
• absolutely BS-free learning environment
• absolutely proven fighting techniques
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Re: Mayweather vs. Mcgregor

Postby windwalker on Fri Sep 08, 2017 6:55 am

marvin8 wrote:
Here is a more general answer, not specific to McGregor's recent training. I thought this was a good article covering the benefits of training boxing, Why ALL Fighters Should Learn Boxing, https://www.expertboxing.com/boxing-basics/how-to-box/why-all-fighters-should-learn-boxing

Some excerpts:
JOHNNY N, OCTOBER 17, 2013 wrote:All fighters, mixed martial artists, could benefit from learning how to box. Even if you don’t care for boxing techniques or boxing punches, you could still learn a lot. Boxing can make you a better athlete, improve your reflexes, make you smoother, and more comfortable in a fight. There’s a reason why all MMA camps have dedicated boxing trainers on staff.


I would not agree with the general premise.

Boxing is a highly skilled art that requires a lot of time and effort to build specific skill sets
Boxing skill sets are designed to function and be used within a very highly restrictive rule set.

Used to test long arm "hop gar" against people who did box not pro but they boxed, we put on the gloves
and banged away... Agreeing not to kick, long arm gave me the advantage because of the range and distance that I could hit them
while they where still out of range for their style and could not close without getting damaged in the process.

The targeting of boxers is limited, while with CMA what would be considered illegal in boxing is not.
Forearms, and arms where prime targets which in boxing is not legal.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QS79C1XEqBc

An example of very different skill sets.

Some might feel they know how or can box without ever having learned the craft.
big mistake,,,rule of thumb don't box a boxer....

Boxing as fighting art is effective because not being effective
means one gets hit or knocked out. Even in sparring get tagged a couple of times
tends to wake a person up... ;)
Last edited by windwalker on Fri Sep 08, 2017 6:59 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Mayweather vs. Mcgregor

Postby marvin8 on Fri Sep 08, 2017 4:15 pm

windwalker wrote:
marvin8 wrote:
Here is a more general answer, not specific to McGregor's recent training. I thought this was a good article covering the benefits of training boxing, Why ALL Fighters Should Learn Boxing, https://www.expertboxing.com/boxing-basics/how-to-box/why-all-fighters-should-learn-boxing

Some excerpts:
JOHNNY N, OCTOBER 17, 2013 wrote:All fighters, mixed martial artists, could benefit from learning how to box. Even if you don’t care for boxing techniques or boxing punches, you could still learn a lot.

Boxing can make you a better athlete, improve your reflexes, make you smoother, and more comfortable in a fight. There’s a reason why all MMA camps have dedicated boxing trainers on staff.


I would not agree with the general premise.

Boxing is a highly skilled art that requires a lot of time and effort to build specific skill sets
Boxing skill sets are designed to function and be used within a very highly restrictive rule set.

Used to test long arm "hop gar" against people who did box not pro but they boxed, we put on the gloves
and banged away... Agreeing not to kick, long arm gave me the advantage because of the range and distance that I could hit them
while they where still out of range for their style and could not close without getting damaged in the process.

The targeting of boxers is limited, while with CMA what would be considered illegal in boxing is not.
Forearms, and arms where prime targets which in boxing is not legal.

You might misunderstood the premise. The premise is: Skills developed in learning boxing can help any fighter become better. The article mentions, "Even if you don’t care for boxing techniques or boxing punches, you could still learn a lot." Learning boxing develops a variety of attributes other than just techniques. It's not about Boxing vs. Hop gar: Who wins? It's about training in boxing can make you a better Hop Gar fighter.

The boxer learns the skills of deceiving, setting traps, drawing an opponent in, handling incoming energy, leading into emptiness, landing a punch, timing, weight shifting, transitioning from defense/offense, etc. These are skills any fighter can benefit from.

Boxing teaches you how to apply these skills in a brutal, full intensity, fight. It is up to the fighter to transfer these concepts/skills outside of the boxing rules. Several elite MMA fighters recognize the benefits of boxing training and are learning from top boxing trainers, to improve their MMA fighting.
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Re: Mayweather vs. Mcgregor

Postby windwalker on Fri Sep 08, 2017 4:37 pm

Who wins? It's about training in boxing can make you a better Hop Gar fighter.


no it can not.

"fighting" with hop gar makes one a better hop gar fighter
or what ever one uses or trains in.

You seem to be suggesting that boxing has skills that "fighting"
does not address.

IME with those I knew who did box when we compared skill sets,
it was they who could not deal with the hop gar skill sets even when
some of them were limited to make it a little more fair ie no kicking, throwing,
only striking....

hop gar is known among some as a preferred style of gangsters
there is a reason for this..

I do agree that for most who do not "fight" it does touch
on many aspects which for those that confuse the practice of push hands
as fight training or sparring may not be familiar with.

movement specialized movement takes a lot of time to develop and use.
Boxers are highly adapted at what they do which is quite sophisticated.

a big mistake for those thinking its not.

note: do not claim to teach or represent hop gar the system.
it was part of my history and is part of my training focus
at this time. for those interested
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=25747
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Re: Mayweather vs. Mcgregor

Postby Steve James on Fri Sep 08, 2017 7:46 pm

Nothing ever proves anything about a style because of contests between them. It comes down to individual skill and fighting ability. Imo, no one should study a martial art because it is "better" than another. I don't know any hop-gar guys, but I wouldn't claim than any of them could beat Tyson because of their style. I don't know how many hop-gar guys fight professionally as hop-gar guys.

However, I could say that there might be things that a boxer could use. I just don't know. There may be something. But, imo, though becoming a boxer capable of competing on the professional level takes years, it's possible for a rank beginner to walk into a boxing gym, find a coach, and learn something that he can immediately use that same day. Of course, the quality will depend on his ability. Then, if he comes back and practices sparring, he will advance. If someone who studies another style learns forms but doesn't spar, the difference in ability will be noticeable -regardless of the style.
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Re: Mayweather vs. Mcgregor

Postby windwalker on Fri Sep 08, 2017 8:16 pm

my last post on this since it seems to now focus on the hop gar style.
which some who've not experienced it somehow feel free to speculate about.

Imo, no one should study a martial art because it is "better" than another. I don't know any hop-gar guys, but I wouldn't claim than any of them could beat Tyson because of their style. I don't know how many hop-gar guys fight professionally as hop-gar guys.



That thinking is not typical of how CMA styles developed nor why they developed.
If they trained to the same level as Tyson, most likely they would be able to defeat him due to Tysons limited style "boxing".

Which was my point. CMA styles developed in an attempt to neutralize others natural attributes over coming the persons own shortcomings
which western thinking seeks to overcome by making everything equal and adopting rule sets to keep it safe.


"One of Wong's most popular tales is his return to Guangdong. In front of Hai Tung Monastery, Wong set up an elevated stage known as a leitai to accept challenges from any and all comers. Over the course of eighteen days, he defeated over one hundred and fifty challengers. "Either the challenger was maimed or killed," noted Chin. "He never let one challenger leave his school without injury. He was a master of using the technique of cruelty."

In the old days it was the style that mattered over the man, proving this was the way it proved itself.
The teaching of the "style" was kept to a selected few because the style was thought to be better then what others were doing at the time
this type of thinking is true for most CMA styles although not as public as it once was. times change


"That's it. Different styles specialize on different techniques and usually these people don't pick them up. They don't know how to use them. For example, tongbei is different than regular kung fu. It's the way they use the power, the way they deliver momentum and striking force.


That's what makes it outstanding. I don't say that these new styles are bad kung fu or anything like that. I always say 'Whatever you do, I don't want. Whatever I do and you don't know - that's how we win"
David Chin.

http://www.kungfumagazine.com/magazine/ ... rticle=661
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Re: Mayweather vs. Mcgregor

Postby windwalker on Fri Sep 08, 2017 8:42 pm

inquiring minds ask, what if.

The question has been posed countless times on MMA message boards: How would Mike Tyson have fared had he competed in the UFC?

According to the Brooklyn, N.Y., native, not very well. When asked by “UFC Tonight” host Chael Sonnen how he would have done in a fight against then-UFC tournament champion Royce Gracie, Tyson said he would not have possessed the technical tools to earn a victory against the grappler.

"Well, in '93, I was in prison, so there wouldn’t have been a fight, but there is no way I would have won,” said Tyson. “I had no idea what was going on with that type of fighting and would’ve been taken by surprise. I would have had to train in that particular art of fighting before that happened.
Read more at http://www.sherdog.com/news/news/Mike-T ... MeUHhxv.99
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Re: Mayweather vs. Mcgregor

Postby Steve James on Fri Sep 08, 2017 8:48 pm

Aw, my point was that it's not the style; it's the man.
Marvin's point was that there were things that western boxing had that could also benefit practitioners of other styles.
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