Vinyl (LPs)

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Vinyl (LPs)

Postby everything on Sun Jul 30, 2017 8:15 pm

Are you one of those people who prefers vinyl records? Or still likes them? Any record player recommendations (new ones)?

I'm not an audiophile and probably can't hear the difference but certainly the artwork and "old fashioned" experience seems attractive. One of my kids wants a record player and I think that's cool. Not really sure what is a good starter player.
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Re: Vinyl (LPs)

Postby wiesiek on Mon Jul 31, 2017 2:50 am

I was audiophile once, but 1st wife sold out the gramophone and bigger part of my vinyls... :'(
In my opinion digital can not beat good linear types sound
BUT
warning:
contemporary pressed vinyls are "analogues remasters" !!!
and `cause I`m not using turntable from time of my 1st marriage cannot comment about how it sounds.
Turntables:
warning again:
Lot of turntables avalible are with USB connection /read: analog - digital converter only/ what makin` buin` it nonsense.
Brands:
I was using Thorens turntable which was quite good and not so expensive/ $500/, belt drive.
Technics has good opinion/ rep., as direct drive division.
If you like go on the top - check out the "Transcriptor " - Swiss beast :) .

next things to consider: the cartridge/ needle shape...
you may chose moving coil or moving magnet . MC is more technologically advanced.
If money is the factor here - better chose the top model of MM over mediocre MC.
joyful usefullnes of the effords
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Re: Vinyl (LPs)

Postby everything on Mon Jul 31, 2017 5:28 am

Oh shoot

So you're saying this new old technology won't actually be good like the old was?

Hmm thanks though. Will try to learn more.
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Re: Vinyl (LPs)

Postby KEND on Mon Jul 31, 2017 7:36 am

While recently living on the south coast of the UK I would hang out at the local coffee shop, The Vinyl Head. In Ramsgate it was a place where local artists, musicians would gather. Its owner was a vinyl enthusiast, playing them on an old time gramophone and I became aware of the resurgence of vinyl. Personally having lived through the whole history, 45's, 78's, CD's etc frankly the cult nature of the gramophiles never appealed to me but a bit of nostalgia may be a good thing
VINYL HEAD CAFE IS A RECORD SHOP AND CAFE WITH A CURATED PORTFOLIO OF VINYLS AVAILBLE TO BUY WHILST OTHERS VIBRANTLY EMBELLISH THE WALLS. WITH DECKS ON THE COUNTER PLAYING POPULAR TUNES, THEY SERVE DELICIOUS COFFEE, CAKES AND OTHER LIGHT BITES IN A FRIENDLY AND BUZZY ENVIRONMENT.
THERE’S AN ECLECTIC MIX OF FURNITURE AND MEMORABILIA AS WELL AS OCCASIONAL LIVE PERFORMANCES. GREAT LITTLE SPOT TO HANG OUT AND RECHARGE
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Re: Vinyl (LPs)

Postby Peacedog on Mon Jul 31, 2017 7:42 am

I used to think the vinyl thing was all hype.

Then I was at a friends house a few years back who has a big collection and some really high end turntables.

The sound was much closer to what you get in a live performance.

That said, without really high end analogue equipment I'm not sure I would have noticed a difference.

So like with a lot of things it depends on quality and investment.
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Re: Vinyl (LPs)

Postby Bao on Mon Jul 31, 2017 7:49 am

Good stuff to collect. That and Lego special editions. :P
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Re: Vinyl (LPs)

Postby everything on Mon Jul 31, 2017 8:15 am

Shoot that sounds super expensive as a hobby. My son already makes his own special edition Lego figs. Much less expensive hobby!

If it sounds closer to a live performance, it would be good, though. Maybe after I take over the world and have some real money, I'll get into this vinyl hobby. I had read that Steve Jobs was really into vinyl and didn't actually like digital (though iTunes and iPods contributed greatly to the digital music takeover).
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Re: Vinyl (LPs)

Postby Steve James on Mon Jul 31, 2017 8:39 am

First off, nothing beats being in the band or orchestra in the middle of the music. The original goal of "Hi-Fi" was to get as close as possible to a live performance. Vinyl was good, but not as good as reel-to-reel tape. But, the bottleneck was always playback. That's where cost made the biggest difference.

You need/ed a low-distortion amplifier, and probably a pre--amp, equalizer, and a power amp. In the early 60s, the amps were all tube jobs too. So, you'd actually have to replace burnt out tubes as if they were light bulbs. Moreover, if you used tape, the sound quality would deteriorate a bit with each playing. It was a similar problem with vinyl.

So, if you wanted state-of-the-art audio equipment, you had to shell out a lot of cash. Well, personally, I built my own Dynakit and Heathkit. Check ebay; and they're selling Dynaco Dynakits for big bucks today. And, then there were the speakers, and everyone wanted the closest they could get to studio monitors.

At any rate, playing vinyl was third rate in terms of sound quality, costly, and time consuming. But, while all this was happening, most people were not audiophiles and were listening to rock and roll on tinny transistor radios. In popular music, there wasn't even much concern about "stereo" or "stereophonic" sound. "Pet Sounds," Hendrix and the later Beatles changed all that. By the early 70s, people were listening much more closely to the music. Vinyl still wore out, though. And transistors replaced tubes. Soon, many people listened to cassette tapes of music recorded in the studio. Then came the cd in the 80s.

The advantage of digital is that the media is cheap, and if it's recorded directly at the studio or performance --as opposed to remastering previously recorded material-- it'll be at least as faithful to the original as vinyl. The only way to compare, imo, would be to make analog and digital recordings of the same live performance (in studio or out), and then use the same playback equipment. Even then, imo, it would still take someone with a fantastic ear to tell the difference. I would be surprised if it were possible.

When people talk about the sound difference between vinyl and cd, they're really indicating a preference. I, too, like the warm sound of a vinyl record played on a tube amp. It is definitely different, and would be much more nostalgic. Not always for good reasons, either. If you bought Motown 45s or lps, you remember that almost all of them would have scratches and pops after the first few plays. :) There are records I recall that just won't sound the same with the defects.

Do I think it's worth the trouble of playing vinyl? I have to say not for me. I'm even quite sure that I can't hear as well as I did. If I want hi-fi, I go to a concert or jazz club. I will probably convert my vinyl to digital, just for convenience sake. Maybe I will sell some of my old records after I digitize them. Now, the question then is which format to use (ogg, flac, etc). It's probably be flac.
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Re: Vinyl (LPs)

Postby front on Mon Jul 31, 2017 8:42 am

The worst part about the available digital content is that most is CD-ripped. And CDs are usually mastered to sound louder. Search for "loudness war". Vinyls are mastered mostly way closer to the original recorded sound. So listening to resampled vinyl rip (44 kHz) will still sound better than a CD with the same music. I'm not audiophile but I listen to vinyl rips when the digital is too loud. I buy the vinyls but I don't bother to rip them. You can download properly made vinyl rips. I have a small vinyl collection but my turntable is probably rotten inside.... Can't remember when I last turned it on... I use only digital now.
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Re: Vinyl (LPs)

Postby everything on Mon Jul 31, 2017 11:31 am

Thanks for all this info. I'm in over my head and not being an audiophile with a really good ear, it doesn't much matter. In my son's case (doubt he has a good ear, either), I think this will just be novelty and retro tech appreciation (not even nostalgia, since he isn't the right age).

It sounds (no pun intended) like one has to be an audio engineer and musician to really grasp all this...
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Re: Vinyl (LPs)

Postby Steve James on Mon Jul 31, 2017 11:57 am

Naw, not a sound engineer; it was/is a hobby like photography. And, then you have the natural male competitiveness that makes someone spend thousands for differences in distortion levels that most can't hear anyway.

Ya know, tube amplifiers are back in style, sort of like the "steam punk" retro aesthetic. If I were to really get back into it, I'd use the same strategy as I would for computers. See what was state of the art 4 or 5 years ago. It's almost guaranteed that you be able to hear the difference.

Right now, I'm into miniaturization and wireless. That's the next project. Still have to decide on an acceptable USB turntable.
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Re: Vinyl (LPs)

Postby Peacedog on Mon Jul 31, 2017 12:02 pm

Steve,

Are they making new tubes again?

I know for awhile there was some money in tracking down old tubes that still worked as no one was making them anymore.
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Re: Vinyl (LPs)

Postby Steve James on Mon Jul 31, 2017 12:12 pm

Peacedog, I know they're making tube amps for headphones. For ex., https://www.amazon.com/Little-Dot-Headp ... B00CHIKIDM

Here's another https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-miracl ... 1445452602

Afa replacing old tubes, I think it's a garage hunt.
Last edited by Steve James on Mon Jul 31, 2017 12:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Vinyl (LPs)

Postby everything on Mon Jul 31, 2017 12:14 pm

wait so you'd try to get 5 year old tech?

for computers, I'm moving on to chromebooks pretty much. not sure I'll ever need a "real" computer again.
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Re: Vinyl (LPs)

Postby Steve James on Mon Jul 31, 2017 12:32 pm

everything wrote:wait so you'd try to get 5 year old tech?

for computers, I'm moving on to chromebooks pretty much. not sure I'll ever need a "real" computer again.


Yep, if I wanted to get "state of the art." It's the same if I were buying a Mercedes: i.e., never this year's model. Go back five years, and you'll get it for 1/2 price or less.

We were talking about lps and playback quality. My point is that the ordinary person won't be able to tell the difference between this year's cutting edge and last year's or the year before's. If you can afford it, however.

So, imo, usb turntables are pretty much the same. I wouldn't buy a new one; but, I'd consider insisting on Bluetooth/wireless.

Afa amps, especially tube amps, the oldest stota technology will be way more expensive than the more modern versions. Imo, the one reason that small tube amps are popular is the fact that speaker power requirements are lower, so the amps don't eat up as much power. (Obviously, tubes use a lose a lot of energy by producing light and heat. They are not the greenest option).
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