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Michael wrote:High risk elective activities that benefit no one else and also destructive are not tragic compared to deaths due to unpredictable forces beyond your control.
Two macho men duke it out over some argument in a restaurant and one dies is sad for people who will be hurt by this, but not everything is tragic.
In the original meaning of the words, this fight is tragic, as it can only be tragedy if it is brought on by the actions of the protagonist. If it were totally beyond the protagonist/victim's control, it would be pitiful, not tragic.
Michael wrote:High risk elective activities that benefit no one else and also destructive are not tragic compared to deaths due to unpredictable forces beyond your control.
Two macho men duke it out over some argument in a restaurant and one dies is sad for people who will be hurt by this, but not everything is tragic.
I say tragic for the families of both individuals. Obviously this was not a death match and the body builder had a high opinion of his fighting ability but was completely unaware of the reality.
It could have happened to most who trained. I have seen many a competitive meet up where one person decided to win by taking the challenge to total war.
I do hear you in though in that the best part of aging is seeing pass the mucho bull.
Last edited by grzegorz on Wed Aug 23, 2017 6:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities." - Voltaire
I am always surprised when people think that they can fight. Nobody can fight. All fighting is gambling, anything can happen.
Too much ego can kill you, both bodybuilder examples show that in different ways. The thing that I don't get is how someone can continue to repeatedly punch someone when he is already down. That person must have something loose in his head and deserves any punishment he can get. It was an unnecessary approach. I remember the boxer who died a couple of years ago, who got beaten repeatedly in the back of his head. Unnecessary that as well. But this guy now actually chose the situation.
Never ever try to go up against someone who has no respect for others or for himself. Never do that, in no kind of situation. Never go into any kind of situation where there can be violence, because you might end up meeting someone like this.
I find the whole thing most tragic. So incredibly stupid and unnecessary. Two people destroying their lives, both the loser who died and the winner- And they mess up everyone's life for all of the people around them. One dead, one hated for the rest of his life, probably with very little future ahead of him. So many people in grief and sorrow. What's not tragic about the whole thing? How stupid can people become?
Last edited by Bao on Wed Aug 23, 2017 2:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
Thoughts on Tai Chi (My Tai Chi blog) - Storms make oaks take deeper root. -George Herbert - To affect the quality of the day, is the highest of all arts! -Walden Thoreau
I would potentially have much more sympathy for a hurricane or cancer victim than someone who got killed in what appeared to be a 100% avoidable street fight.
Last edited by Michael on Wed Aug 23, 2017 5:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
Well, in ordinary language, a "tragedy" is just something that makes people "sad." However, usually, people use tragedy to describe unexpected sadness and to differentiate between types of sadness. For ex, if a woman dies in childbirth, if a baby dies during birth, if a toddler falls out a window, if a teenager dies tight-walking a bridge, if a 20 year-old dies of a heart attack, or is hit by a car, are all just sad events. If a 90 year-old dies of heart failure, it's just as sad for the family; but few will call it a tragedy. Of course, we call the disasters and cataclysms that cause destruction and loss of life tragedies.
Then, there's literary "tragedy," though it's almost never about sadness. It's about what the reader learns from the protagonist's tragic end. Oedipus finds out that he's killed his father and screwed his mother, and he'll have to live with it. That's the tragedy. Romeo and Juliet didn't really have to die.
I don't think it matters whether what happened to the lifter a tragedy or not. It's clearly a case of a young person dying for nothing, not even a paycheck. People have lost their lives after getting hit with one punch, or from falling down and hitting their heads. Referees watch bouts to make sure that rules are followed and the fighters are protected from unnecessary damage. But, everyone has a choice.
I would potentially have much more sympathy for a hurricane or cancer victim than someone who got killed in what appeared to be a 100% avoidable street fight.
How about sympathy for them all?
Only on RSF can the title become the entire topic of the thread.
Personally I think the body builder thought it was going to be a wrestling match.
Last edited by grzegorz on Wed Aug 23, 2017 7:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities." - Voltaire
Referees watch bouts to make sure that rules are followed and the fighters are protected from unnecessary damage. But, everyone has a choice.
well said.
With out referees one is relying on ones own sense and the others sense of honer. Depending on ones training, what might be expected is not acted on. Like hitting some one after they are down. In MMA matches this might be just part of a follow through expected and trained for.
One has to wonder why he continues to hit his opponent after he tripped and was knocked down. Wouldn't the honorable, sportsman like thing to do, would have been to let him get up and begin again?
While I do not agree with continuing in a match after its apparent that its over, I can understand that it might be because of ones training and expectations.
I've been caught off guard in thinking something was over when it was not. Felt the other took a "cheap shot" due to my own inner code did not smash them although in retrospect maybe I should have.
Last edited by windwalker on Wed Aug 23, 2017 7:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
I would potentially have much more sympathy for a hurricane or cancer victim than someone who got killed in what appeared to be a 100% avoidable street fight.
How about sympathy for them all?
Only on RSF can the title become the entire topic of the thread.
Yeah, "ground and pound" seems to have become a legitimate technique. Imo, big difference doing it on a mat or gym floor and on concrete. "Hitting a man when he's down" was considered unethical, even in a street fight. Sure, people get beaten to death all the time, intentionally. That's called murder. If it's not intentional, then it's accidental.
Afa the fight, I doubt that the "mma guy" thought that his kick to the head would kill. One can only hope that he had a reason for hitting the other guy that allows him to live with it.
In the 60s, I watched a boxing match between Emile Griffith and Benny "Kid" Paret. At the weigh-in, Paret called Griffith a homosexual in Spanish. Griffith, sexuality or not, eventual beat Paret so badly that he went into a coma and died. Thirty-five years later, Griffith as beaten up by five guys with baseball bats. However, Griffith was sorry about killing Paret for the rest of his life. I suppose there are cases, but I've never heard of a fighter being happy or nonchalant about killing another fighter.
"A man is rich when he has time and freewill. How he chooses to invest both will determine the return on his investment."
I seem to remember George Foreman looking back and remarking that Ali had a chance to hit him when he was nearly defenseless, but Muhammed chose not to take it.
I would potentially have much more sympathy for a hurricane or cancer victim than someone who got killed in what appeared to be a 100% avoidable street fight.
How about sympathy for them all?
Only on RSF can the title become the entire topic of the thread.
Dint you catch my weasel words?
We got jokes, have we?
This is more of my style of humor. The body builder should have read Marcus Aurelius.
Advice which applies to us all.
Also never get into a fight unless you it is to defend your life or the lives of others.
Last edited by grzegorz on Wed Aug 23, 2017 10:39 am, edited 3 times in total.
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities." - Voltaire
You mean like constantly go around with death anxiety and regret all mistakes and stupid things you did?
Thoughts on Tai Chi (My Tai Chi blog) - Storms make oaks take deeper root. -George Herbert - To affect the quality of the day, is the highest of all arts! -Walden Thoreau
