Blacks for Trump

[Steve James]

he put forward an argument about the armband to which you haven't responded.

He can wear any arm band he wants, and neither I nor RobP has said that he couldn't. So, there's no need to defend him from that. But, you don't need me to respond to all his arguments. They're typical; pick one. How about "National Socialism is about the natural order of things based on a hierarchy and that govt should let people live with their own kind." Fine: in fact I just pointed out that the Nazis wouldn't want to live around him. However, for the sake of argument, does he or you believe that a person should be able to live in peace wherever he wants? What if I consider my "kind" to be human beings?

[Michael]

Well, by implying or saying he's wrong in a video all about an armband, then maybe that's your point, and i think there is a need to defend his and others' freedom of speech when reporters spend 8 minutes trying to catch someone in a hypocrisy instead of asking good questions like this:

However, for the sake of argument, does he or you believe that a person should be able to live in peace wherever he wants? What if I consider my "kind" to be human beings?

Recently a group of 40 non-Nazis in Boston were treated to tens of thousands calling them Nazis because some reporters love labels that generate anger and outrage since it translates to attention and income. I think this peacenik National Socialist taxi driver video is in the same vein as far as the reporter desperately trying to emphasize someone's Nazi'ness.

[Steve James]

Well, by implying or saying he's wrong in a video all about an armband

So, I just said that he could wear whatever armband he wanted. In fact, I posted a pic of a young "Black" boy in Nazi Germany wearing a swastika he wanted. The point was that it was ironic. But, I also said that it was also psychologically understandable. I didn't say he was "wrong" for wearing it. Some might say he was brainwashed, but no more than other Hitler youth.

Btw, you didn't answer my question about where a person should be able to live.

You don't get to redefine "national socialism." It's a phenomenon and political party with a specific history. The story about tens of thousands calling "non-Nazis" Nazis isn't really relevant unless there is something wrong with being a Nazi. Besides, anyone who agrees with the ideas and ideals of "national socialism" might as well declare himself as a Nazi.

Anyway, there's a wiki. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazism

[Steve James]

Oh, why ironic? Well, that German boy, Massaquoi, wanted to join the Hitler Youth. When he got old enough to get a job, he found that the jobs he wanted were "verboten" to "mischlingen" (i.e., you had to be a pure-blood to get into the union). Of course, looking up to the Nazis as he did, he was ... disappointed. But, what did he expect.

Iinm, I also posted an article on Fritz Haber, the Jewish scientist who fought in WW1 for Germany. He developed the poison gases used on the front. See the Battle of Ypres, for ex. By the time Hitler came to power, Haber had converted to Christianity and continued to work for the Nazis. Um, ok ... Here's the relevant irony.

By 1931, Haber was increasingly concerned about the rise of National Socialism in Germany, and the possible safety of his friends, associates, and family. Under the Law for the Restoration of the Professional Civil Service of 7 April 1933, Jewish scientists at the Kaiser Wilhelm Society were particularly targeted. The Zeitschrift für die gesamte Naturwissenschaft ("Journal for all natural sciences") charged that "The founding of the Kaiser Wilhelm Institutes in Dahlem was the prelude to an influx of Jews into the physical sciences. The directorship of the Kaiser Wilhelm Institute for Physical and Electrochemistry was given to the Jew F. Haber, the nephew of the big-time Jewish profiteer Koppel". (Koppel was not actually related to Haber.)[3]:277–280 Haber was stunned by these developments, since he assumed that his conversion to Christianity and his services to the state during World War I should have made him a German patriot.[8]:235–236 Ordered to dismiss all Jewish personnel, Haber attempted to delay their departures long enough to find them somewhere to go.[3]:285–286 As of 30 April 1933, Haber wrote to Bernhard Rust, the national and Prussian minister of Education, and to Max Planck, president of the Kaiser Wilhelm Society, to tender his resignation as the director of the Kaiser Wilhelm Institute, and as a professor at the university, effective 1 October 1933. He said that although as a converted Jew he might be legally entitled to remain in his position, he no longer wished to do so.[3]:280
Haber and his son Hermann also urged that Haber's children by Charlotte Nathan, at boarding school in Germany, should leave the country.[3]:181 Charlotte and the children moved to England around 1933 or 1934. After the war, Charlotte's children became English citizens.[3]:188–189

So, again, imho, those brown Nationalist Socialists will come to a sudden realization when they realize that they won't be wanted when the Nazis get their way.

[Michael]

I agree, you can't redefine National Socialism or Nazis, but there is an important overlap where individual interpretation, as odd or even offensive as it may appear, and accompanying individual rights, allow for a personal expression within legal limits. The current argument from the left is that what I just said is invalid if the person in question is a [insert villain here].

A person should be able to live anywhere according to the principle of equal rights and equal opportunity, so an American National Socialist from the Dominican Republic should be able to live wherever they like in the USA. I'm not sure if his belief in the "natural order and hierarchy" would mean that he feels the same way about all Americans. It would have been another great question to pose him instead of the reporter harping on the irony of his being a black immigrant (I assume he immigrated to the USA, could be wrong), who believes in National Socialism and is pained by having to apologize for wearing a swastika armband in his taxi.

[Steve James]

The current argument from the left is that what I just said is invalid if the person in question is a [insert villain here].

That sentence makes no sense. But, it's just too bad that people don't like Nazis. And, it's not just "the left." That's a complete lie in sense and fact.

Nothing the cabbie says makes Nazism or National Socialism any different from what it claims to be. Sure, they want free speech. But, there's no 'free speech' under national socialism. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censorshi ... zi_Germany

Secondly, your position is confusing if not hypocritical. Two years ago, you were going on about how Putin was "right" to support an attack against the Ukraine, which had been taken over by ... Nazis.

You also mentioned that "thousands" of Bostonians came out and called people "Nazis." So, did they attack? Did they run cars into the small group? But, you say that they're wrong, whether they are violent or not, and use the same claim of the "left" that you use for Antifa. Sorry, the media has not convinced people that Nazis are bad. And, if the Nazis can march, chanting, holding torches and flags, so can everyone else.

What you're arguing is just far-right propaganda that can be adjusted and repeated for any issue.

Like I said, it's ironic. For some, a tragic irony.

[RobP3]

Well, by implying or saying he's wrong in a video all about an armband, then maybe that's your point,

I never mentioned the armband. He can wear what he likes AFAIC. I have a good friend with a large, prominent swastika tattoo. It is the old religious symbol for her (Hare Krishna). She is black. People sometimes question it and she explains the context. I don't think this guy understands the context of true Nazism, like I said he is working off an interpretation of it, or perhaps a denial. That is my point

[Michael]

The current argument from the left is that what I just said is invalid if the person in question is a [insert villain here].

That sentence makes no sense. But, it's just too bad that people don't like Nazis. And, it's not just "the left." That's a complete lie in sense and fact.

Nothing the cabbie says makes Nazism or National Socialism any different from what it claims to be. Sure, they want free speech. But, there's no 'free speech' under national socialism. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censorshi ... zi_Germany

Secondly, your position is confusing if not hypocritical. Two years ago, you were going on about how Putin was "right" to support an attack against the Ukraine, which had been taken over by ... Nazis.

You also mentioned that "thousands" of Bostonians came out and called people "Nazis." So, did they attack? Did they run cars into the small group? But, you say that they're wrong, whether they are violent or not, and use the same claim of the "left" that you use for Antifa. Sorry, the media has not convinced people that Nazis are bad. And, if the Nazis can march, chanting, holding torches and flags, so can everyone else.

What you're arguing is just far-right propaganda that can be adjusted and repeated for any issue.

Like I said, it's ironic. For some, a tragic irony.

No, it's not a lie. I've documented several things in our discussions. The left says you have to shout down Nazis and they refuse to engage in discussion with them, then also says it's okay to punch Nazis first. The problem shown in Boston is they weren't Nazis and they refuse to hear any different. One guy recently got stabbed getting out of his car because someone thought he had a Nazi haircut. That's an isolated case, but it shows the result of assuming or labeling people without discussion.

Did they attack in Boston? I mean, do you watch the news? Seriously? Yes, they attacked the police and even attacked their own people in the crowd, mistaking them for Nazis and punching first without any provocation or discussion. Sure, people can shout back, carry their own torches, etc. That's legal, but sometimes way overboard, IMO. But the same thing happens with the left as with Nazis or KKK, Antifa uses intimidation tactics, threats and violence if you approach them or go into a public area where they are. There are many videos since Trump was elected documenting this.

Ukraine and Putin? I don't remember saying Putin was right to attack Ukraine because of Nazis. That's an oversimplication.

[Michael]

What you're arguing is just far-right propaganda that can be adjusted and repeated for any issue.

You're really reaching.

[Steve James]

Nope. Everything you site is out of the alt-right playbook. You just repeat it. Nothing anyone does against Nazis makes National Socialism better. You talk as if you're arguing with "the left." It's just me. And, all I pointed out was that it was ironic that a brown guy would support National Socialism. Then, you bring up the right wear swastikas. Nobody said they couldn't. Nobody here endorsed violence against anyone for just wearing one.

Anyway, the great thing about Nazism today is that it's bringing people out of the closet and they'll have to make a choice. There'll be no middle ground. But, sticking with the theme of irony.

In his celebrated diary of daily life in the Third Reich, Victor Klemperer writes: "If one day the situation were reversed and the fate of the vanquished lay in my hands, then I would let all the ordinary folk go and even some of the leaders, who might perhaps after all have had honourable intentions and not known what they were doing. But I would have all the intellectuals strung up, and the professors three feet higher than the rest; they would be left hanging from the lamp posts for as long as was compatible with hygiene."

The reason Klemperer reserved such special contempt for the professors and intellectuals of the 1920s and 1930s was that professors and intellectuals played a special role in bringing on the horrors of the Nazi regime, as Claudia Koonz and other historians have documented. Not only did those professors and intellectuals provide some of the leading arguments for the rise of that regime, but they also served in that regime: as doctors, population experts, engineers, propagandists. And lawyers.

That's what they plan for the losers, whoever they deem so at the time. You're either for them or against them.

[Steve James]

Re: comments on Russia, the Ukraine, and Nazis. Just fwiw
https://rumsoakedfist.org/viewtopic.php ... 800793a6d3

[rob2]

Mentioning the left in relation to white supremacists is redundant; it's not a partisan issue. You're either a white supremacist or you're not (in which case you are to the left of them, whether you're a liberal or not).