English culture is best culture:

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Re: English culture is best culture:

Postby Steve James on Thu Aug 24, 2017 10:41 am

No, I put it to you that culture was invented by the English at some time around 1970.


:) When it comes to "culture," ya gotta say that the French (Normans) brought table manners to the Anglo-Saxons. That's why we (English speakers) eat pork and beef rather than pig and cow. It's why you use forks. It's why 65% of your vocabulary has Latin or French origins.

But, "culture" includes art, music, literature, ways of constructing shelter, clothing, etc. In that sense, nobody "invented" it at all. Otoh, I think you mistake 1970 for 1790. However, you're talking to the "Romantic" definitions of culture (i.e., see German Romanticism (18th century) and English Romanticism (19th century). Neither of which are the way anthropologists use "culture" today. Hey, I accept your definition. I just say there is probably a wiki page on the subject.
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Re: English culture is best culture:

Postby Steve James on Thu Aug 24, 2017 10:58 am

Aha, I had to look it up. The creation of "cultural studies" happened in the UK (not just by the English) in the 1970s. Here's part of the wiki description:

In the United Kingdom, sociologists and other scholars influenced by Marxism such as Stuart Hall (1932–2014) and Raymond Williams (1921–1988) developed cultural studies. Following nineteenth-century Romantics, they identified "culture" with consumption goods and leisure activities (such as art, music, film, food, sports, and clothing). Nevertheless, they saw patterns of consumption and leisure as determined by relations of production, which led them to focus on class relations and the organization of production.[32][33]

In the United States, cultural studies focuses largely on the study of popular culture; that is, on the social meanings of mass-produced consumer and leisure goods. Richard Hoggart coined the term in 1964 when he founded the Birmingham Centre for Contemporary Cultural Studies or CCCS.[34] It has since become strongly associated with Stuart Hall,[35] who succeeded Hoggart as Director.[36] Cultural studies in this sense, then, can be viewed as a limited concentration scoped on the intricacies of consumerism, which belongs to a wider culture sometimes referred to as "Western civilization" or "globalism."

From the 1970s onward, Stuart Hall's pioneering work, along with that of his colleagues Paul Willis, Dick Hebdige, Tony Jefferson, and Angela McRobbie, created an international intellectual movement. As the field developed, it began to combine political economy, communication, sociology, social theory, literary theory, media theory, film/video studies, cultural anthropology, philosophy, museum studies, and art history to study cultural phenomena or cultural texts. In this field researchers often concentrate on how particular phenomena relate to matters of ideology, nationality, ethnicity, social class, and/or gender.[37] Cultural studies is concerned with the meaning and practices of everyday life. These practices comprise the ways people do particular things (such as watching television, or eating out) in a given culture. It also studies the meanings and uses people attribute to various objects and practices. Specifically, culture involves those meanings and practices held independently of reason. Watching television in order to view a public perspective on a historical event should not be thought of as culture, unless referring to the medium of television itself, which may have been selected culturally; however, schoolchildren watching television after school with their friends in order to "fit in" certainly qualifies, since there is no grounded reason for one's participation in this practice.
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Culture#Etymology

Fwiw, the wiki points out that the modern anthropological definition of culture comes from Franz Boas (an American), who wrote about it in the 20s. Here's a thesis on the subject https://web.archive.org/web/20170102111 ... s/boas.pdf

Fwiw2, my doctorate is in English and American literature and language. It's not that I have anything against the English or English culture.
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Re: English culture is best culture:

Postby liokault on Thu Aug 24, 2017 11:03 am

When I said the English invented culture some time around 1970, I was referring to the time of my birth.

Apparently the English aren't as good at self depravacating humour as we like to think.

I did think that putting up two notorious Pedophiles as comedy icons would have been a clue.
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Re: English culture is best culture:

Postby Steve James on Thu Aug 24, 2017 11:11 am

:) Now you're making me feel bad. 1970, damn. :) I didn't get the pedo reference, though. My bad.
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Re: English culture is best culture:

Postby liokault on Thu Aug 24, 2017 11:25 am

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jimmy_Savile

Jimmy Savile, so well loved they actually gave him the key to a kids hospital so he could go in and comfort them at night.

Rolf Harris is still in prison.
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Re: English culture is best culture:

Postby warriorprincess on Thu Aug 24, 2017 11:35 am

Culture's for yoghurt

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Re: English culture is best culture:

Postby Michael on Thu Aug 24, 2017 4:03 pm

liokault wrote:https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jimmy_Savile

Jimmy Savile, so well loved they actually gave him the key to a kids hospital so he could go in and comfort them at night.

Rolf Harris is still in prison.

At least they got one of them.
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Re: English culture is best culture:

Postby KEND on Thu Aug 24, 2017 5:33 pm

Premier league : Italians/Portuguese managers, mainly foreign players, Asian/Russian owners only playing fields in the UK, yet people still get emotional over the name of their team.
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Re: English culture is best culture:

Postby Steve James on Thu Aug 24, 2017 5:41 pm

And Rooney retired from international play. Who's the best English footballer nowadays, anyway?
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Re: English culture is best culture:

Postby KEND on Fri Aug 25, 2017 7:05 am

Tottenham's Kane is top goal scorer, Bale [a Welshman] is up there, but top Brit players are rarer nowadays, the age of Mathews, Charlton et al has passed
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Re: English culture is best culture:

Postby Steve James on Fri Aug 25, 2017 8:54 am

Yeah, Charlton and Best, I remember; but :) only because I was watching the Brazilians. English football didn't make it to US English tv much. And, if you wanted to watch any interesting coverage of the World Cup, etc., you watched on Latin American tv in Spanish.
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Re: English culture is best culture:

Postby KEND on Fri Aug 25, 2017 6:32 pm

Premiere league is everywhere, watched Chelsea, Arsenal etc regularly in a small village in Thailand
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