Distant Healing

[willie]

Explaining how shit works is a lot more difficult than insisting upon an existing, limited perspective.

The skill to do something does not equal the skill to explain a very complicated thing that you can do.

That's because it does not work. I know a master who claimed that he could do that kind of thing. When I herniated discs in my neck about 12 years ago or so doing jiu-jitsu, this master claimed that he could heal the injuries to my neck from thousands of miles away, which of course did not work.

[willie]

But I 'll tell you what does work, weight lifting. Weightlifting reinforces everything around the areas that are injured making it stronger. My neck no longer bothers me.

[Michael]

Even if I could explain the framework in which this claim could make sense, which is essentially explaining the framework for a multi-dimensional reality where all life depends upon energy coalescing wherever attention focuses it, that would at best be a hypothetical. The only thing that would be persuasive would be results and I've achieved dramatic, undeniable results many times from distant healing, with measurements of the patient to confirm. This means nothing to any correctly skeptical person not directly involved in that case, and I doubt any amount of paper documentation or testimonials would be persuasive to people who understand the benefit of the scientific method. So, by default, the argument is moot, but those i've healed long distance are still a fact and were not cold sores, but sometimes life-threatening problems whose status changed dramatically in less than 24 hours. The placebo effect is just as mysterious and relevant as the claimed distant healing effect and yet it seems to have a special asterisk within the mind of the skeptic, who rightly should not believe anything without verifiable evidence.

Blah, blah, blah, the mystery continues.

[Dmitri]

Have you considered 'suggestion'? It's a powerful and tangible thing, relatively well-explained already. Combined with a strong confirmation bias and the general ability of our brain to fumble, and trick and "betray" us on occasion, it can explain just about anything "unexplainable" that can't be reliably reproduced for multiple different-enough individuals using good olde double-blind method.

How do you imagine the totality of our reality, willie? As some tangible, five sense only reality where what you see is what you get? Something that simple appeal to you?

The utterly essential, yet too-often-overlooked, part in bold. That's the meat in the pies of religion or philosophy... I prefer the much less tasty pie of science. Sugar is bad for ya. (But it tastes soooo good!!)

[Steve James]

I'd say that any non chemical and non physical healing is the body healing itself. The catalyst isn't important, if it works. When religious parents refuse treatment for their child's cancel and prefer to use faith healers, that is their choice. If the child improves, who can say it didn't work. So, I would happily seek, request, and try distant healing or just prayers and good wishes. What I won't do is pay for it.

[Michael]

Dmitri, you're right. Suggestion is powerful and definitely at play in distant healing as well as going to see Mister Whitecoat.

[willie]

How do you imagine the totality of our reality, willie? As some tangible, five sense only reality where what you see is what you get? Something that simple appeal to you?

Our reality can not be explained.
Religion's can be incorrect as well. Perhaps they are "all" only delusion.
As a child in grade school, We are taught about the big bang. Which may not even be correct.
In science class, I remember being shown a chart called evolution of man. It showed ape's evolving into man...
So where does that fit in the delusion of religion? Where does it say in the bible that man came from ape's?
Yet people continue to "Build" their entire life around a unreliable source of information.

I have seen healing. I had it done to me a couple times on small injuries. The effect was unbelievable and unexplained.
Being "at that time" unexplained. It could appear to be some kind of magic or a higher power. Some teachers could
very easily deceive people with it. It was "acupressure" that worked, not magic, not god's.

In closing, i would like to add that It's not that I am against this type of thing, not at all.
I just prefer to remain hopeful that the people involved with this stuff are keeping in touch with reality.

[Michael]

I just prefer to remain hopeful that the people involved with this stuff are keeping in touch with reality.

The problem is that understanding the framework where this is possible reveals the plasticity of our reality to such an extent that the subject and practice become incongruent with the dominant viewpoint of reality. When asked, I advise people to avoid it.

[Ron Panunto]

When I was a kid and got sick the doctor used to come to my home with his little black bag and I always got a shot of penicillin in my ass. Now I have to drive 20 miles to the doctor when I get sick to get the same shot. This is my only experience with "distant healing".

[Ron Panunto]

Ron,

Shouldn't you be in the weight room instead of harassing innocent New Agers?

Peacedog

I've heard Mantak chia say that this modality of treatment does work and I wouldn't bet against him. It is an interesting form of treatment but I'm wondering what form the medium would have to be in order to establish such an interaction between healer and patient.
For example does one need something as tangible as a picture of the patient or would something as intangible suffice such as someone merely making mention of the patient and his/her illness from a third party that is known to the patient; maybe even a hair or some other object from the patient or a piece of skin perhaps?

A picture or photo of the patient is probably not required as Im guessing this DHI was going on way before the 'global village' we now live in and how past healers in the east went about this.

Why wouldn't you bet against Mantak Chia? I had hands on-work from him and it didn't work for me.

[amor]

Ron,

Shouldn't you be in the weight room instead of harassing innocent New Agers?

Peacedog

I've heard Mantak chia say that this modality of treatment does work and I wouldn't bet against him. It is an interesting form of treatment but I'm wondering what form the medium would have to be in order to establish such an interaction between healer and patient.
For example does one need something as tangible as a picture of the patient or would something as intangible suffice such as someone merely making mention of the patient and his/her illness from a third party that is known to the patient; maybe even a hair or some other object from the patient or a piece of skin perhaps?

A picture or photo of the patient is probably not required as Im guessing this DHI was going on way before the 'global village' we now live in and how past healers in the east went about this.

Why wouldn't you bet against Mantak Chia? I had hands on-work from him and it didn't work for me.

I only know of those people who have had others' hands on them and those others' had learned how to put their hands on their patients using Mantak Chia's Chi Nei Tsang system of hands-on massage. The few that I know said it really helped with their issues.
I don't know how good Mantak himself is but if his instructors made people feel better then I imagine that the teacher would be miles better. Perhaps your issues are much worse than those others I know who weren't suffering as much as you had.
Its all very complex.

[Ron Panunto]

I have experienced it from two practitioners who have a substantial history of successful treatments. In both cases they had treated the recipient previously. Their methods were a little different, one 'saw' the energy body and treated it, the other just sent energy to the person. They told the recipient approximately when the energy would be transmitted. The above would appear to lend itself to placebo effect. A lot more research is needed, some was done by legitimate physicists in China, I am checking those results. There has been speculation that it is linked to the 'spooky action at a distance' since it seems non distance related

Please don't implicate 'spooky action at a distance' with this crap. That derogatory term was coined by Einstein because he couldn't quite accept quantum theory. It is a very special case were two particles become entangled when they are generated together. What takes place in the quantum realm typically does not translate into our macroscopic world, i.e., "spooky action at a distance" does not (yet) work in our macroscopic realm because physics places an upper limit (speed of light) on the speed of information transmission.

[Bao]

There are scientific research on energy fields. Maybe it's better to take Huffington Post lightly... though the study is from one of the very best and most renowned medical universities in the world.

...But anyway, true or false, ... from own experience the article make some sense.

Scientists Discover We Have A ‘Force Field’ Around Our Bodies And You Can Feel It:
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/s ... b557958f6a

[willie]

There are scientific research on energy fields. Maybe it's better to take Huffington Post lightly... though the study is from one of the very best and most renowned medical universities in the world.

...But anyway, true or false, ... from own experience the article make some sense.

Scientists Discover We Have A ‘Force Field’ Around Our Bodies And You Can Feel It:
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/s ... b557958f6a

Luke... I'm your father... let the force be with you!
I just had to do it LOL

[windwalker]

there is a lot of TCM theory that explains fields of "qi" and how it relates to healing
the how, why, the body uses this to keep its self healthy, and how others can use this to help or facilitate healing in others.

All living bodies generate an external field of energy called Wei Qi (pronounced “whey chee”), which translates as “protective energy.” The definition of Wei Qi in Medical Qigong is slightly different than that of Traditional Chinese Medicine (TCM). In Classical Chinese Medicine texts, the Wei Qi field is seen to be limited to the surface of the body, circulating within the tendon and muscle tissues.

In Medical Qigong, however, the Wei Qi field also includes the three external layers of the body’s auric and subtle energy fields. This energy originates from each of the internal organs and radiates through the external tissues.

There the Wei Qi forms an energy field that radiates from the entire physical body. This field of Qi protects the body from the invasion of external pathogens and communicates with, as well as interacts with, the surrounding universal and environmental energy fields.

http://keystohealing.ca/?p=3349

Micheal, Ken, or some of the others more in tune with "qi" gong and its effects might be able to tie if they are related
the ideas of "wei qi" and some of what was mentioned here.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6WVmnC1WY8&t=104s

As some have noted its good to be skeptical but also have an open mind.
What I look for is the theory of how something is said to work and then compare that
to what or how something is being done.