Vegas Shooting

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Re: Vegas Shooting

Postby Steve James on Tue Oct 03, 2017 9:44 am

There probably are people who will say that there must have been multiple shooters. However, the writer's assertion that it was a false flag operation carried out by ISIL or Antifa and covered up by the mainstream media in order to forward the agendas of the elites is agit propaganda. It's not news unless it's true. The question is whether it's just fake. The answer is easy because the writer's conclusion can't be confirmed, and if the mainstream media doesn't affirm his conclusion, he'll just say that proves it.

Don't know where you found it, but there'll surely be more. And anyone interested will go to sites that repeat it. Afa bringing people together, articles of this type certainly will not. I would argue that it is designed to divide and spread mistrust.
Last edited by Steve James on Tue Oct 03, 2017 9:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Vegas Shooting

Postby Steve Rowe on Tue Oct 03, 2017 10:53 am

Either way there are measures that can be taken to make it more difficult in the future
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Re: Vegas Shooting

Postby Ron Panunto on Tue Oct 03, 2017 1:48 pm

The assault rifles that he used were automatic. They don't know whether he bought them that way or if he purchased and installed the conversion kits. Automatic weapons are illegal, but the kits to convert them to automatic are legal - go figure.
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Re: Vegas Shooting

Postby yeniseri on Tue Oct 03, 2017 5:09 pm

For someone skilled, the sear to make the AR-15 automatic is easily done but it isn't illegal (depending on state requirements and NRA influence). Buying and selling the functional automatic function is ??? illegal ??? depending on said NRA influence. Nevada's laws were/are loose enough for this to happen in plain sight. Even buying firearms at many gun shows requires nothing other than cash, at best.

This is USA and this is the trend. Expect more and higher body counts in the futire especially as we saw with the figuratively and literally, sitting duck audience!
Aiming any weapon on the parking lot of such a venue, is a wet draem for these types of scumbags.
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Re: Vegas Shooting

Postby KEND on Wed Oct 04, 2017 11:53 am

As I said at the beginning, look for the medication, cannot confirm below but sounds plausible in view of the fact that a high percentage of the nass homicides seem to be drug rather than terrorist related

By Paul Harasim ©2017, Las Vegas Review-Journal
October 3, 2017 - 9:00 pm
Updated October 4, 2017 - 10:00 am
. On Sunday, Oct. 1, 2017, Paddock opened fire on the Route 91 Harvest festival, killing 58 and wounding hundreds. (Eric Paddock via
Stephen Paddock, who killed at least 58 people and wounded hundreds more in Las Vegas on Sunday with high-powered rifles, was prescribed an anti-anxiety drug in June that can lead to aggressive behavior, the Las Vegas Review-Journal has learned.
Records from the Nevada Prescription Monitoring Program obtained Tuesday show Paddock was prescribed 50 10-milligram diazepam tablets by Henderson physician Dr. Steven Winkler on June 21.
A woman who answered the phone at Winkler’s office would not make him available to answer questions and would neither confirm nor deny that Paddock was ever a patient. Paddock purchased the drug — its brand name is Valium — without insurance at a Walgreens store in Reno on the same day it was prescribed. He was supposed to take one pill a day. Diazepam is a sedative-hypnotic drug in the class of drugs known as benzodiazepines, which studies have shown can trigger aggressive behavior. Chronic use or abuse of sedatives such as diazepam can also trigger psychotic experiences, according to drugabuse.com.

New Study Confirms What CCHR Has Said for Decades—Antidepressants Cause Violence
By Kelly Patricia O’Meara
September 22, 2015
Antidepressant drugs can cause violent behavior.
That’s what mainstream press such as the LA Times and Reuters are reporting, based on a new study published in a respected medical journal, PLOS Medicine, which found young adults between the ages of 15-24, were nearly fifty percent more likely to be convicted of a homicide, assault, robbery arson, kidnapping, sexual offense and other violent crime when taking the antidepressant than when they weren’t taking the psychiatric drug.To have heavy-hitters like the Los Angeles Times cover the issue is precedent setting, as the link between psychiatric drugs and violence has long been ignored by mainstream press. But the fact that antidepressants cause violence isn’t a new revelation as the Citizens Commission on Human Rights (CCHR) has been at the forefront of exposing this connection for nearly two decades.CCHR’s efforts to expose the link between violence and antidepressants goes back to 1991 when CCHR helped organize hearings before the Food and Drug Administration (FDA), where victims and experts gathered to testify that Selective Serotonin Reuptake Inhibitors (SSRIs) cause not only suicide but violence, including homicide. The testimony by parents, about the violent self-inflicted deaths of their young children, was gut-wrenching. Yet, despite overwhelming data provided by experts, and the first-hand accounts of suicide and violence caused by antidepressants, the FDA Advisory Committee, many of which had financial conflicts of interest with the pharmaceutical companies, refused to warn the public of the link between suicide and antidepressants, and did not provide any consideration of whether the antidepressants may be responsible for other violent behavior. Between 2004 and 2012, there have been 14,773 reports to the U.S. FDA’s MedWatch system on psychiatric drugs causing violent side effects. Click image for more information. This latest study, linking violence and antidepressants, only serves to support decades of CCHR’s research and efforts to elicit action by those in a position to make a difference. To date, 35 school shootings and/or school-related acts of violence have been committed by those taking or withdrawing from psychiatric drugs and, between 2004 and 2012, there have been nearly 15,000 reports to the FDA’s MedWatch system on psychiatric drugs causing violent side effects. Coincidentally, the study linking antidepressants with violent behavior comes on the heels of another recent report exposing the fraudulent research of GlaxoSmithKline’s antidepressant, Paxil. According to a review of the data used for the approval of the antidepressant, Paxil is not effective in the treatment of children and there is significant risk of suicide associated with it.
Below is a partial list of homicides by young people, I cannot guarantee its veracity but if true presents a grim picture
• Eric Harris age 17 (first on Zoloft then Luvox) and Dylan Klebold aged 18 (Columbine school shooting in Littleton, Colorado), killed 12 students and 1 teacher, and wounded 23 others, before killing themselves. Klebold's medical records have never been made available to the public.
• Jeff Weise, age 16, had been prescribed 60 mg/day of Prozac (three times the average starting dose for adults!) when he shot his grandfather, his grandfather's girlfriend and many fellow students at Red Lake, Minnesota. He then shot himself. 10 dead, 12 wounded.
• Cory Baadsgaard, age 16, Wahluke (Washington state) High School, was on Paxil (which caused him to have hallucinations) when he took a rifle to his high school and held 23 classmates hostage. He has no memory of the event.
• Chris Fetters, age 13, killed his favorite aunt while taking Prozac.
• Christopher Pittman, age 12, murdered both his grandparents while taking Zoloft.
• Kip Kinkel, age 15, (on Prozac and Ritalin) shot his parents while they slept then went to school and opened fire killing 2 classmates and injuring 22 shortly after beginning Prozac treatment.
• Luke Woodham, age 16 (Prozac) killed his mother and then killed two students, wounding six others.
• A boy in Pocatello, ID (Zoloft) in 1998 had a Zoloft-induced seizure that caused an armed stand off at his school.
• Michael Carneal (Ritalin), age 14, opened fire on students at a high school prayer meeting in West Paducah, Kentucky. Three teenagers were killed, five others were wounded..
• A young man in Huntsville, Alabama (Ritalin) went psychotic chopping up his parents with an ax and also killing one sibling and almost murdering another.
• Andrew Golden, age 11, (Ritalin) and Mitchell Johnson, aged 14, (Ritalin) shot 15 people, killing four students, one teacher, and wounding 10 others.
• TJ Solomon, age 15, (Ritalin) high school student in Conyers, Georgia opened fire on and wounded six of his class mates.
• Rod Mathews, age 14, (Ritalin) beat a classmate to death with a bat.
• James Wilson, age 19, (various psychiatric drugs) from Breenwood, South Carolina, took a .22 caliber revolver into an elementary school killing two young girls, and wounding seven other children and two teachers.
• Elizabeth Bush, age 13, (Paxil) was responsible for a school shooting in Pennsylvania
• Jason Hoffman (Effexor and Celexa) – school shooting in El Cajon, California
• Jarred Viktor, age 15, (Paxil), after five days on Paxil he stabbed his grandmother 61 times.
• Chris Shanahan, age 15 (Paxil) in Rigby, ID who out of the blue killed a woman.
• Jeff Franklin (Prozac and Ritalin), Huntsville, AL, killed his parents as they came home from work using a sledge hammer, hatchet, butcher knife and mechanic's file, then attacked his younger brothers and sister.
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Re: Vegas Shooting

Postby grzegorz on Thu Oct 05, 2017 1:44 am

I agree with Steve, which he has also brought up before but I didn't understand his point at the time.

It is too easy to try to write off these shooters as mentally ill but what if they are not?

In war we can legally kill and we are considered heroes for doing so. What is a human decides to kill for his own reasons? Is that human then mental?

I ask because I believe that some of these shooters are seeking the fame that we reward them with for the evil they have done. This man will make history until a year or two from now when another American comes up with an even higher body count.
Last edited by grzegorz on Thu Oct 05, 2017 1:45 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Vegas Shooting

Postby Steve James on Thu Oct 05, 2017 5:25 am

Well, if there was more than one shooter, we're both on medication? Were the Columbine shooters both on medication? I can't deny that antidepressants won't make some people more violent. It's obvious, however, that most people on antidepressants have never committed mass murder. Even if it were true, many more people have been killed by alcohol users.

Then, there's the question of mental illness. It only gives the mentally ill a bad name. Otoh, it hard to define a killer as sane. That only happens if and when we arrived satisfied we know his motivation. It's as if disturbed people can't have political or religious or some other motivation.

I think that at least some of the people on Ken's list had reasons for doing what they did, such as hating the job, boss, or coworkers, or other students. At any rate, the mentally ill, the medicated, and the inebriated can all legally obtain weapons that can kill the sane, medicated, and sober. That's the problem.
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Re: Vegas Shooting

Postby Michael on Thu Oct 05, 2017 8:56 am

Steve Rowe wrote:Either way there are measures that can be taken to make it more difficult in the future
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ruYeBXudsds&t=7s


Ben Shapiro is a conservative pundit who made a detailed response to Jimmy Kimmel's message, posted above.

Here's the transcript from Shapiro's video response, below.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qxJWVWXOHPA
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Re: Vegas Shooting

Postby Steve James on Thu Oct 05, 2017 9:46 am

The issue is not that his "we" are considered bad people, and it can't be because some people are nasty. And, the solution is not to paint "them" as the problem or the cause. The issue is that a guy killed 59 and wounded 500 at a concert from a window.

There's also a big problem with his whining "we." The majority of US gun owners and people in general favor strict gun laws. There are even those --in the Senate and House-- who think that preventing people from buying mechanisms that make semi-automatics fire as fast as fully-automatics is a sensible idea. Iow, there are things that people can agree on. Hey, if that means preventing people who take ritalin or anti-depressants to buy weapons, that'd be fine (with me), but there'd be lots of people who'd say it unfairly restricted their rights.

Congress will actually be voting on whether to make it legal for civilians to own silencers. One can only ask why. But, if Kimmel complains, Shapiro will use the same argument, that makes any criticism of current gun laws or removing restrictions is just a nasty personal attack on his audience. Therefore, they should take it personally and automatically oppose those new laws.

Ya gets people to agree, if that's what you want, by starting with the things you can agree on. However, we all know that, even if there are laws, the NRA is right that people will get the weapon they want. I'll bet you that sales of "bump stocks" are already going up --while they're still legal-- and prices will soar as soon as they're restricted. We all know, though, that records are meant to be broken.
Last edited by Steve James on Thu Oct 05, 2017 9:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Vegas Shooting

Postby Steve James on Thu Oct 05, 2017 6:07 pm

(Bloomberg) -- The nation’s largest gun-lobbying group said devices that allow semiautomatic rifles to function like automatic firearms should be subject to new regulation after a growing number of Republican lawmakers say they’re open to such restrictions.
Following a mass shooting in Las Vegas on Sunday, in which the gunman had weapons modified to allow rapid firing, the National Rifle Association called on the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives to review whether the "bump stock" devices used to modify semiautomatics comply with federal law.

“The NRA believes that devices designed to allow semi-automatic rifles to function like fully-automatic rifles should be subject to additional regulations,” the group said in a statement on Thursday. The NRA also criticized politicians seeking to ban guns, saying doing so wouldn’t prevent a “criminal act of a madman.”
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/nra-open-to-new-rules-on-rapid-fire-gun-accessories-after-vegas/ar-AAsX76M?getstaticpage=true
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Re: Vegas Shooting

Postby Michael on Thu Oct 05, 2017 9:19 pm

Steve James wrote:The issue is not that his "we" are considered bad people, and it can't be because some people are nasty. And, the solution is not to paint "them" as the problem or the cause. The issue is that a guy killed 59 and wounded 500 at a concert from a window.


I thought Shapiro's main point was that Kimmel is using emotional appeal to advance ideas and policy suggestions that are not being properly examined and discussed because emotions are their foundation, so Shapiro gave some counter-arguments.

Bump stocks are new to me, maybe someone on RSF has personal knowledge, how fast are they? The LV massacre articles are making vague reference to 400 rounds per minute with an AR-15.

Here's an interview Tucker Carlson of the dreaded Fox News did that follows a similar pattern to Kimmel-Shapiro. Carlson keeps asking the guy to give specifics about what gun policies he advocates, but Carlson isn't satisfied with the answers. It's basically a counter-argument to the sentiment that "We have to do something!" because of the recent massacre. It's partly an emotional appeal, an incomplete idea it seems. What specific measures can be taken? 2nd amendment supporters say the only viable solution is sth. like what was done in Australia, but then nutters would just do what was done in Nice, France and drive over their victims.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEFSMxqq59Q
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Re: Vegas Shooting

Postby jimmy on Thu Oct 05, 2017 9:38 pm

god damn, son...
are u like... dumb or summit...?
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Re: Vegas Shooting

Postby Steve James on Thu Oct 05, 2017 9:49 pm

[sarcasm]Is there a solution to someone using a car as a weapon? Or how about using a hammer or knife? We can never stop it, and we can't ban cars or kitchen utensils. Hmm, where have we heard that before?

Obviously it's easy enough for a mentally ill senior citizen to find out about bump stocks, so there's no need to ask here. Imo, though, focusing on bump stocks specifically is just a politically expedient solution. People can find other ways to increase their lethality. It's the price of freedum. Ya got your Constitution supporters on one side and those who want to destroy America on the other.

If we all had machine guns, things like this would not happen.[\sarcasm]
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Re: Vegas Shooting

Postby Michael on Thu Oct 05, 2017 10:02 pm

I'm curious about Hodgkinson and now Paddock. I'm also really curious about a device the ATF approved for sale in 2010 that is said to be able to make a semi-auto nearly as fast as an auto.

Yeah, I know how these gun control debates go around and around, but that's this week's topic.
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Re: Vegas Shooting

Postby Giles on Fri Oct 06, 2017 5:23 am

Michael wrote: I'm also really curious about a device the ATF approved for sale in 2010 that is said to be able to make a semi-auto nearly as fast as an auto.


Purely FYI, a video posted before Las Vegas:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3gWrthH2OK4&has_verified=1

Any quibbling about technicalities aside, the device basically creates a "civilian machine gun".
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