US Now Admits Syrian "Rebels" Have Used Chemical Weapons

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US Now Admits Syrian "Rebels" Have Used Chemical Weapons

Postby Michael on Sun Oct 29, 2017 7:59 pm

US Now Admits Syrian "Rebels" Have Used Chemical Weapons

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-10-22/us-now-admits-syrian-rebels-have-used-chemical-weapons

From the first moment chemical weapons were used on the Syrian battlefield, the American public was led to believe that only one side could possibly be responsible. The constant refrain in the echo chamber of US government officials and the mainstream media was that only the Assad government possessed chemical stockpiles and the technological capability of deploying such heinous weapons, therefore blame for each and every chemical attack from Ghouta to Khan Sheikhoun was laid at the feet of Assad and the Syrian military.

And yet last Wednesday, for the first time, the US State Department casually dropped an important admission into its official Syria travel warning for American citizens: that the core rebel group currently operating in northwest Syria not only possesses but has used chemical weapons - to the point that the State Department considers it a major enough threat to publicly warn citizens about.

The armed opposition group, Hayat Tahrir al-Sham (HTS), is referenced early in the document: "Terrorist and other violent extremist groups including ISIS and Al-Qaeda linked Hayat Tahrir Al-Sham [dominated by Al-Qaeda affiliate Jabhat Al-Nusra, a designated Foreign Terrorist Organization], operate in Syria.” HTS is the group now holding Idlib province, which it captured in 2015 as part of a coalition of armed groups given direct support from a US-led operations room in southern Turkey - this according to prominent pro-opposition analyst Charles Lister.
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Re: US Now Admits Syrian "Rebels" Have Used Chemical Weapons

Postby Michael on Sun Oct 29, 2017 8:04 pm

This was strongly suspected, discussed, documented, revealed, etc. during the war, just not by the US/NATO main stream media. Trump fecklessly sent 59 Tomahawks into Syria earlier this year, killing a few Syrian soldiers and risking escalation with Russia based on the premise Assad's govt and Army had dropped some nerve gas in a jihadist held area of little importance. None of the accusations about the Syrian govt using chemical weapons over the years since the war began have held up to scrutiny and usually didn't make sense on their face.
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Re: US Now Admits Syrian "Rebels" Have Used Chemical Weapons

Postby Giles on Mon Oct 30, 2017 6:38 am

If one of the Syrian rebel groups is also using chemical weapons, then that's seriously bad and shouldn't be ignored.

However...
Michael wrote:None of the accusations about the Syrian govt using chemical weapons over the years since the war began have held up to scrutiny and usually didn't make sense on their face.


??? ???
Take a look at http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-39500947, especially the second half which discusses the alternative explanations for the attack. Or do you think it's a huge conspiracy, also involving Human Rights Watch and now the UN which has just stated in a report that it is "confident" that this attack was committed by the Syrian government ?
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Re: US Now Admits Syrian "Rebels" Have Used Chemical Weapons

Postby Michael on Mon Oct 30, 2017 10:45 pm

Giles wrote:If one of the Syrian rebel groups is also using chemical weapons, then that's seriously bad and shouldn't be ignored.

However...
Michael wrote:None of the accusations about the Syrian govt using chemical weapons over the years since the war began have held up to scrutiny and usually didn't make sense on their face.


??? ???
Take a look at http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-39500947, especially the second half which discusses the alternative explanations for the attack. Or do you think it's a huge conspiracy, also involving Human Rights Watch and now the UN which has just stated in a report that it is "confident" that this attack was committed by the Syrian government ?

I discussed the details of that when it happened. The only evidence that a chemical attack even occurred came from a UK doctor they identify as a terrorist. There is simply no other physical evidence nor is there a motive, and it is questionable if a chemical attack actually occurred. Therefore, there is no case against the Syrian govt.

Similar accusations against Syria's military have been made going back to 2012 and none of them have been proven, while strong circumstantial evidence, considered as proof by Syria, that the rebels committed chemical attacks have finally been confirmed by the USA. One BBC article is just one very limited viewpoint on a very complex situation. Assad addressed the April chemical attack accusations and I posted the videos of his interviews. Maybe take a look and see if he's making any sense by asking why he would have done such a thing when the area was unimportant, they're winning the war, and the consequences would be only negative.
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Re: US Now Admits Syrian "Rebels" Have Used Chemical Weapons

Postby Giles on Tue Oct 31, 2017 6:32 am

Well, this one BBC article actually cites multiple sources, of various natures and from various countries and including international organizations, that this and other chemical attacks have taken place and that the Syrian government/Assad were in most cases the culprits. Not just one source. Are you saying that the UN has put its name to the just-issued report on the basis of one dubious person? Are you positing that the attacks never took place at all? Or that if they did, this and other attacks were committed by certain rebel groups on their own people (and also on their own medical rescue workers) in an attempt to make the Syrian government look bad?

Well, I guess you have more time and energy than I do to continue to argue the case and trawl the Net for pro and contra arguments. I don't have any further time and energy. To me this looks pretty much like a no-brainer but maybe I have no brain. So in that respect I guess you win.
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Re: US Now Admits Syrian "Rebels" Have Used Chemical Weapons

Postby oragami_itto on Tue Oct 31, 2017 6:55 am

That's Republican truth for ya. One article from a sketch source that supports their prejudice is greater than international consensus from a variety of well vetted sources.

It's the BEACON OF FLAMING TRUTH
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Re: US Now Admits Syrian "Rebels" Have Used Chemical Weapons

Postby Michael on Tue Oct 31, 2017 8:30 am

Giles, I didn't mean to come across like I'm trying to win. i made the briefest possible reply with specific points after following the Syrian war closely since it began. I looked into all of the things you mentioned, and more, and drew my conclusions from a variety of sources over a long period of time and you haven't done anything but post an article. You didn't reply to any of my specific questions.

The fact that this is your response to the USA admitting the rebels used chemical weapons, whom the USA supported in various forms, perhaps not admitting they specifically supported "those" rebels, and that the USA and its factions were doing everything imaginable to escalate this war and destroy Syria, that this is your response is very disturbing to me. I don't know how you can be pro US/NATO for the breakup of Syria at this point.
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Re: US Now Admits Syrian "Rebels" Have Used Chemical Weapons

Postby Michael on Tue Oct 31, 2017 8:33 am

oragami_itto wrote:That's Republican truth for ya. One article from a sketch source that supports their prejudice is greater than international consensus from a variety of well vetted sources.

It's the BEACON OF FLAMING TRUTH

Do you have anything to say about the USA now admitting the rebels used chemical weapons when it was our contention previously that only Assad could have done so and that we used that incorrectly, to say the least, to make war upon Syria?
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Re: US Now Admits Syrian "Rebels" Have Used Chemical Weapons

Postby Steve James on Wed Nov 01, 2017 11:12 am

The article refers to an advisory warning that rebels have chemical weapons now and have used them. The writer then extrapolates that they were responsible for the attack blamed on Assad's people. But Assad said his people didn't have those weapons at all. Hmm.
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Re: US Now Admits Syrian "Rebels" Have Used Chemical Weapons

Postby Michael on Wed Nov 01, 2017 8:07 pm

USA/UK/France/NATO wanted to use the chemical attacks as a justification to do to Assad and Syria what they did to Qaddafi and Libya, which was to destroy the country and create an international springboard for terrorists to enter Europe and other areas of the Middle East.

USA/UK/NATO said no one but the Syrian military could have used chemical weapons, therefore they did it, let's have a "no-fly zone", meaning bomb them to smithereens like we did in Libya.

How's that migrant crisis? Please, NATO, may we have another?

Now the USA admits the opposite, that the rebels are using chemical weapons, although we, the USA, continue to support those groups in various forms in Syria.

This is the contradiction.

The writer then extrapolates that they were responsible for the attack blamed on Assad's people. But Assad said his people didn't have those weapons at all.

Where is the contradiction? Assad's people means who exactly? Military? Civilians? Syrian citizen rebels? International jihadi rebels?

These are some of the international jihadi rebels with chemical weapons from 2013.
Turkish Police find Chemical Weapons in the Possession of Al Nusra Terrorists heading for Syria
Global Research, March 30, 2013
https://www.globalresearch.ca/turkish-police-find-chemical-weapons-in-the-possession-of-al-nusra-terrorists-heading-for-syria/5336917
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Re: US Now Admits Syrian "Rebels" Have Used Chemical Weapons

Postby MistyMonkeyMethod on Thu Nov 02, 2017 4:14 am

Dorky media analysis aside, the image of the crater tells a story. Ordinance/projectile dropped out of a plane travelling at several hundred miles an hour create a significant ballistic impact, add explosives in to the mix and the impact crater is enlarged greatly. Given that this was an alleged chemical weapon, it's likely the explosive component was quite small, if present at all. Regardless, that crater doesn't look like it came from something dropped out of a plane. Also, the crater doesn't show any signs of a diagonal trajectory, which is what happens when things get dropped out of plane at speed. However, this could be achieved by slowing the decent with a parachute, but that generally leaves some traces too. You do however need a team on the ground to assess the impact to make a conclusive assessment, this has not been done as far as the articles go. Not surprising of course, it is a war zone.
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Re: US Now Admits Syrian "Rebels" Have Used Chemical Weapons

Postby Michael on Thu Nov 02, 2017 8:17 am

There was evidence collected from other, hotter war zones in Syria in the past. It wasn't collected here because the area is under complete jihadi control and not strategically significant. The jihadis would not allow any inspectors to see the "evidence".

No one had yet offered a single reason why Assad would have done this back in April. The only motive I can come up with is craziness and he has never appeared crazy to me in all the interviews he's done the past 6 years.
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Re: US Now Admits Syrian "Rebels" Have Used Chemical Weapons

Postby Steve James on Thu Nov 02, 2017 9:52 am

The evidence was the attack. The question was who committed it. It wasn't against Assad supporters, and Assad had chemical weapons previously. Consequently, Assad got the blame. You are right that the US wanted Assad out. Russia, otoh, wanted him in. Both agreed that destroying IS/Daesh was primary.

However, just because the rebels are claimed to have chemical weapons now does not mean they had or used them in April. It's no aha moment that proves anything. Where and when did the rebels or Daesh use chemical weapons?
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Re: US Now Admits Syrian "Rebels" Have Used Chemical Weapons

Postby MistyMonkeyMethod on Thu Nov 02, 2017 9:34 pm

These arguments are somewhat pointless, it's likely all sides committed similar acts, that's war for you. End of the day, the winners win and looser lose. In this case Assad/Iran/Russia are closer to the finish line than their opponents, and as with any conflict the loosing side will try and obfuscate facts, and the winning side will respond in kind. However, only the winners will dictate the reality on the ground and everything outside that is irrelevant. Nothing new here, it's been like this forever.
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Re: US Now Admits Syrian "Rebels" Have Used Chemical Weapons

Postby Michael on Fri Nov 03, 2017 7:10 am

Steve James wrote: It's no aha moment that proves anything.


Since Jimmy is falling down on the job, here ya go :D I'll post a response about the chemical attacks shortly.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=djV11Xbc914
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