"Censorship superfluous in Xi's 'New Era'"

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Re: "Censorship superfluous in Xi's 'New Era'"

Postby MistyMonkeyMethod on Sat Nov 04, 2017 1:12 am

I disagree with the premise of the article, seems a bit wishful. The question that should be asked is why would the Chinese look to the West, what's are the pull factors? Times have changed. Bar Chinese liberals who are few and far between, the mindset I quite often perceive from Chinese locals is looking at three things, Western politics, economics and military power.

In terms of politics and economics, it ain't a pretty picture. We have Trump, a bafoon come TV personality/clown, Brexit, Spain/Catalonia, right wing parties/majorities Austria, etc., shifting traditional allies Saudi/Turkey. Shrinking demographics, no growth, fiddled economic statistics, mounting debts, etc. Turning inwards, deglobalizing. Militarily, a quagmire in Afghanistan, loss in Iraq and Syria, mess in Libya, Yemen, Niger. What is attractive about any of this?

On the other hand, China is growing, people are getting richer, life is improving, health is taking a greater priority, global lead in green tech, manor scientific development and military development, even 4th tier cities are looking more modern than many Western capitals. However, no one seems to have leaned how to drive yet and the pollution is still quite terrible, but much improved year on year, been coming here past decades or so.

Of course, we can't ignore the historic context of interaction between the West and China, colonialism, resource theft, subjugation and humiliation. These factors sit firmly in Chinese psyche.

Also, considering China's place in the world in a historic context, particularly in relation to the silk road and its one belt one road initiative, it's quite telling about how they see themselves and their place in the world.

Realistically, the things they wanted from the West, they likely already got in terms of education (universities etc.,). Funny enough, I was at a conference in Shanghai a few weeks ago and a party official did a speach, one thing he said that really stood out, note this is to an international audience "Britain stole all everything wfrom all over the world, why can't China buy everything?", I think that pretty much sums up their point of view.
Last edited by MistyMonkeyMethod on Sat Nov 04, 2017 1:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: "Censorship superfluous in Xi's 'New Era'"

Postby Trick on Sat Nov 04, 2017 5:28 am

MistyMonkeyMethod wrote:I disagree with the premise of the article, seems a bit wishful. The question that should be asked is why would the Chinese look to the West, what's are the pull factors? Times have changed. Bar Chinese liberals who are few and far between, the mindset I quite often perceive from Chinese locals is looking at three things, Western politics, economics and military power.

In terms of politics and economics, it ain't a pretty picture. We have Trump, a bafoon come TV personality/clown, Brexit, Spain/Catalonia, right wing parties/majorities Austria, etc., shifting traditional allies Saudi/Turkey. Shrinking demographics, no growth, fiddled economic statistics, mounting debts, etc. Turning inwards, deglobalizing. Militarily, a quagmire in Afghanistan, loss in Iraq and Syria, mess in Libya, Yemen, Niger. What is attractive about any of this?

On the other hand, China is growing, people are getting richer, life is improving, health is taking a greater priority, global lead in green tech, manor scientific development and military development, even 4th tier cities are looking more modern than many Western capitals. However, no one seems to have leaned how to drive yet and the pollution is still quite terrible, but much improved year on year, been coming here past decades or so.

Of course, we can't ignore the historic context of interaction between the West and China, colonialism, resource theft, subjugation and humiliation. These factors sit firmly in Chinese psyche.

Also, considering China's place in the world in a historic context, particularly in relation to the silk road and its one belt one road initiative, it's quite telling about how they see themselves and their place in the world.

Realistically, the things they wanted from the West, they likely already got in terms of education (universities etc.,). Funny enough, I was at a conference in Shanghai a few weeks ago and a party official did a speach, one thing he said that really stood out, note this is to an international audience "Britain stole all everything wfrom all over the world, why can't China buy everything?", I think that pretty much sums up their point of view.

Good post, sums it up
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Re: "Censorship superfluous in Xi's 'New Era'"

Postby MistyMonkeyMethod on Sat Nov 04, 2017 11:59 pm

Thanks Trick.

Not directly related, but this book which I recently listened to (audible) had a lot of very interesting details, much of it I found relevant to modern issues, touches on China as well, but particularly interesting in terms of economic and political/religious drivers, globalization and the like, highly recommended.

https://www.amazon.com/Silk-Roads-New-H ... 1101912375
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Re: "Censorship superfluous in Xi's 'New Era'"

Postby Michael on Sun Nov 05, 2017 8:09 am

global lead in green tech

John Oliver could do a mini-series on the irony of this statement, and it wouldn't be the only one.

It would start something like, "The most polluted country in the world, whose government gives so few fucks about pollution compared to anything else that a woman to whom they gave permission to make a documentary about their air pollution had her film censored and then fled abroad, is now widely acknowledged a the world leader in 'green tech'."
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Re: "Censorship superfluous in Xi's 'New Era'"

Postby MistyMonkeyMethod on Sun Nov 05, 2017 8:25 am

Can't be that bad in Guangzhou, coastal isn't it? I'm usually in Beijing and Shanghai, the former has improved a lot, the latter was never that bad, or rather quite good when I visited.

I think the measure is by investment volume and active projects/initiatives, which do dwarf everyone else, but as you probably understand, being the main industrial/manufacturing base, it's a tough balancing act.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions ... 5ee8aa88fb

https://amp.theguardian.com/environment ... technology

Much more detail in industry publications. Can probably dig up some free details on this one:

http://www.rechargenews.com
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Re: "Censorship superfluous in Xi's 'New Era'"

Postby Michael on Sun Nov 05, 2017 8:32 am

Can't be that bad? Some places' air are worse than others on certain days and some aspects of pollution are fairly universal from the Great Wall to the Pearl Delta.

Rah, rah! Go team green! :)

I'm also available for parties. You know, for cheering things up, why I just think about the global leader in green tech and a get this amazing grin. It's infectious.
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Re: "Censorship superfluous in Xi's 'New Era'"

Postby MistyMonkeyMethod on Sun Nov 05, 2017 8:38 am

Ha! Alright, I'll keep it in mind, know a good few local miserables that could do with a cheering service! I hope the methodology is better than the local professional mourners for hire :)
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Re: "Censorship superfluous in Xi's 'New Era'"

Postby Michael on Sun Nov 05, 2017 8:45 am

Some of them local mourners are hawt pole dancers. China knows how to throw a funeral.
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Re: "Censorship superfluous in Xi's 'New Era'"

Postby MistyMonkeyMethod on Sun Nov 05, 2017 9:02 am

All Purpose China Cheering Mourning Arousal Services Co.

"we make you happy, sad, excited, 24/7"

Im sure I've seen that on a building there, all lit up in eye burning neon :)

Speaking of flashing, shiny things, as a resident (I assume you are) and providing this goes in in Guangzhou as well, what's the deal with people riding scooters/bicycles in the dead of night, with no lights, reflectors etc, was on one of the outer ring roads in Beijing and these crazies were coming at me from the darkness like no tomorrow.. Meanwhile, it seems every labradoodle (which seem to outnumber the local populace there), are lit up and flashing like Christmas trees. I asked some of the locals to explain this discrepancy to me, all they could muster was "its China, everybody does it". -shrug-
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Re: "Censorship superfluous in Xi's 'New Era'"

Postby grzegorz on Sun Nov 05, 2017 11:19 am

3 Years in Prison for Disrespecting the Chinese National Anthem

https://www.yahoo.com/news/china-makes- ... 55222.html
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Re: "Censorship superfluous in Xi's 'New Era'"

Postby Michael on Sun Nov 05, 2017 3:57 pm

grzegorz wrote:3 Years in Prison for Disrespecting the Chinese National Anthem

https://www.yahoo.com/news/china-makes- ... 55222.html

That new law came about after an elected HK lawmaker who was involved in the 2014 HK protests mixed in their own message to their taking the oath of office. Beijing doesn't have much tolerance for that or anything and probably enacted this law as part of a multi-part reaction, which included jailing three 2014 protesters for several months who'd previously been sentenced to community service, which disqualified them from holding political office for five years because of having now been in jail for more than three months.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/08/17/asia/hong-kong-umbrella-joshua-wong/index.html
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Re: "Censorship superfluous in Xi's 'New Era'"

Postby Michael on Sun Nov 05, 2017 4:04 pm

MistyMonkeyMethod wrote:Speaking of flashing, shiny things, as a resident (I assume you are) and providing this goes in in Guangzhou as well, what's the deal with people riding scooters/bicycles in the dead of night, with no lights, reflectors etc,

Here they say, in Chinese, "There is no why."

They ride those silent scooters at 20-30 KM/h on sidewalks, at night, no lights, no reflectors. Yes. It is insane.

There are hundred of thousands, possibly millions of visitors to China who notice things like this and shrug, while a billion and a half Chinese, who either don't notice or know that noticing will not be a useful expenditure of effort and don't understand why foreigners think these things are worth noticing and remarking about. Don't be so unharmonious.
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Re: "Censorship superfluous in Xi's 'New Era'"

Postby yeniseri on Sun Nov 05, 2017 6:59 pm

Trick wrote: If a Chinese student hold speeches in foreign universities on "how bad things are in their homeland" it might reach the Chinese government, I don't know about that, maybe the students parents are party members or/ and work within government in some way( not unusual) so it becomes more of an family matter in that way...kind of indirectly blaming once own family.


The Falungong fiasco has shown that there are/have been students who spy on others students who do not follow the status quo so it has been reality for some time. There are even reports of students working for Chinese spy agencies under the cover of student or other suberfuge. Additionally, it is easy to find them appearing as sympathizers to a cause while collecting information and sending back through 'dark sources'.
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Re: "Censorship superfluous in Xi's 'New Era'"

Postby Michael on Sun Nov 05, 2017 7:57 pm

yeniseri wrote:
Trick wrote: If a Chinese student hold speeches in foreign universities on "how bad things are in their homeland" it might reach the Chinese government, I don't know about that, maybe the students parents are party members or/ and work within government in some way( not unusual) so it becomes more of an family matter in that way...kind of indirectly blaming once own family.


The Falungong fiasco has shown that there are/have been students who spy on others students who do not follow the status quo so it has been reality for some time. There are even reports of students working for Chinese spy agencies under the cover of student or other suberfuge. Additionally, it is easy to find them appearing as sympathizers to a cause while collecting information and sending back through 'dark sources'.

Along with sincere students and probably student agents, there are also "uncles" who monitor for the CCP and they also send Chinese police into foreign countries to intimidate, as they were caught doing in Australia.

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Re: "Censorship superfluous in Xi's 'New Era'"

Postby Trick on Sun Nov 05, 2017 11:24 pm

yeniseri wrote:
Trick wrote: If a Chinese student hold speeches in foreign universities on "how bad things are in their homeland" it might reach the Chinese government, I don't know about that, maybe the students parents are party members or/ and work within government in some way( not unusual) so it becomes more of an family matter in that way...kind of indirectly blaming once own family.


The Falungong fiasco has shown that there are/have been students who spy on others students who do not follow the status quo so it has been reality for some time. There are even reports of students working for Chinese spy agencies under the cover of student or other suberfuge. Additionally, it is easy to find them appearing as sympathizers to a cause while collecting information and sending back through 'dark sources'.

Didn't you know there are foreign powers working in disguise in the Middle Kingdom too, it's kind of how the game goes for most big nations. Ah, the falungong, if it was just another Qi gong "style" it would be Ok, but it's a Cult. Had two neighbors in Dalian always tried to spread the gospel of Falungong, and especially to me as an foreigner I felt, after a while it got quite annoying.
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