The Perfect Storm continues

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Re: The Perfect Storm continues

Postby Trip on Tue Dec 05, 2017 11:53 pm

You’re not very clear.

I think you said you didn’t call me a misogynist. Well, at first you didn't.
But…the quote is supposed to prove I’m a misogynist, after all…?
The quote is your proof?

Good grief, man! :)
Reread the whole post with a little less…suspicion.
I don’t know if suspicion is the right word…but man, it was a sincere attempt to make a point on the topic.

I didn’t insult you so I’m lost to why you’re coming at me like that.
But, hey, thanks for the reply.

Ian C. Kuzushi wrote:
Trip wrote:
Ian C. Kuzushi wrote:You are equating calling misogynists out on a message board to sexually assaulting women. I think I see where the problem is here.


I asked you an honest question and get called names?
Labeled a misogynists? :)
Me, a woman hater?
Where’s the proof?

Please prove it.


Well, I wasn't talking about you, but as you have encouraged me to review your posts on this thread and to "prove it:"

We're not even talking about the male on male abuse. Oh, no, no, no.
No!

Oh, and women have abused and are abusing too.
I've been grabbed, & more, by women. And I ain't telling!
It’s not their turn to be publicly shamed.Replace all men in power positions with women--and in 20-30 years?-- you'll see the problem clearly.
Power abuse is a human weakness for a lot of humans


I do think some of your tone is hard to read due to different mother tongues, which is why I wasn't calling you out--yet.

Last edited by Trip on Tue Dec 05, 2017 11:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Perfect Storm continues

Postby RobP3 on Wed Dec 06, 2017 2:18 am

Michael wrote:
RobP3 wrote:
You certainly make it seems like a contest, to the extent you disbelieve the UK figures because they don't fit your viewpoint. Do you have any proof that the Home Office is run my rabid feminists?

I never said rabid. They prosecuted Mark Pearson when the only evidence against him was the proof he was innocent.

In the USA, this debate always gets entangled by definitions of rape varying in jurisdictions and both sides claim the other is massaging the numbers. Maybe England and Wales don't have these problems.


But you do think the UK Home Office is run by feminists who skew rape figures? I just wondered what your evidence was for that.

There's a lot of irony on this forum these days
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Re: The Perfect Storm continues

Postby Ian C. Kuzushi on Wed Dec 06, 2017 5:24 am

Trip wrote:You’re not very clear.



I shall dub thee Monsieur Chaudron.
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Re: The Perfect Storm continues

Postby Steve James on Wed Dec 06, 2017 6:28 am

The only way to determine accurate rape figures is for victims to report.
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Re: The Perfect Storm continues

Postby Michael on Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:34 am

RobP3 wrote:But you do think the UK Home Office is run by feminists who skew rape figures? I just wondered what your evidence was for that.

No, I never said that, I said I think someone is massaging the numbers for an agenda. The basis for that opinion is that the numbers sound wrong because they are so completely different from those in the USA, which are strongly affected by prison rape statistics. Those show double the number of male victims as total outside victims, but before the 2003 Prison Rape Elimination Act these estimates did not have as much strength as those I gave from 2012 based on government figures required from the new law.

I recall that Stop Prison Rape estimated the number of prison rapes per year at 500,000. Before there was a federal law in the USA to find and estimate the number of prison rapes per year, estimated from places like Stop Prison Rape were very controversial because of the problems with under-reporting described in the article you posted.

Michael wrote:I'm still surprised by the difference in ratio between those FBI stats in the USA of 67:12 female to male victims, and the ones in the UK of 850:12 female to male victims. 850:12? Doesn't sound right.

Well, here's the problem. I added a zero to the UK numbers. It's 85:12 not 850:12. Okay, that's much closer to the FBI stats. I guess it was I who massaged the number.
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Re: The Perfect Storm continues

Postby Steve James on Wed Dec 06, 2017 9:08 am

1. What is the agenda for manipulating the numbers about male versus female rape? Whose is it?

2. What does this have to do with the increasing number of females asserting they've been sexually assaulted? Or does it have any?

3. How do you know that the statistics have more to do with the number of reports than with the number of rapes?

4. What should happen in the prisons or out to the men who commit these rapes? Should they be held accountable, even years later? What should be done to prevent these rapes? Should men be encouraged to come forward?

5. Should the same things apply to women? Should they keep coming forward? We know what we can do about sexual harassment in the street or office already.
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Re: The Perfect Storm continues

Postby Steve James on Wed Dec 06, 2017 9:08 am

1. What is the agenda for manipulating the numbers about male versus female rape? Whose is it?

2. What does this have to do with the increasing number of females asserting they've been sexually assaulted? Or does it have any?

3. How do you know that the statistics have more to do with the number of reports than with the number of rapes?

4. What should happen in the prisons or out to the men who commit these rapes? Should they be held accountable, even years later? What should be done to prevent these rapes? Should men be encouraged to come forward?

5. Should the same things apply to women? Should they keep coming forward? We know what we can do about sexual harassment in the street or office already.
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Re: The Perfect Storm continues

Postby Trip on Wed Dec 06, 2017 11:07 am

RobP3 wrote:There's a lot of irony on this forum these days


What’s really ironic is when you try to give a heads up that things are not as they appear. Because certain powerful well known industry predators are being allowed to stay in place and someone twists that message so that they can call you misogynist.
A hater of women. :)

Then the next day you wake up and they call you a new name.

That's true irony, my friend.
Or, as the homies say it "That's some funny shit." :) :) :)
Last edited by Trip on Wed Dec 06, 2017 11:14 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: The Perfect Storm continues

Postby Steve James on Wed Dec 06, 2017 12:02 pm

I think misunderstandings are too easy and common to be dwelt on. Sarcasm and satire don't always translate well in writing; so, clarifications are often needed.
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Re: The Perfect Storm continues

Postby chud on Fri Dec 08, 2017 10:33 am

Juanita Broaddrick rips Time’s ‘silence breakers’ snub: ‘I didn’t fit in their liberal victim mold’: click
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Re: The Perfect Storm continues

Postby Peacedog on Fri Dec 08, 2017 6:54 pm

I'm just waiting for Roy Moore to get elected in AL, so I can watch all of the talking heads have aneurysms. It will be like the scene in Scanners where their heads explode.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RmL7Y51ktl4
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Re: The Perfect Storm continues

Postby Michael on Sat Dec 09, 2017 6:49 am

chud wrote:Juanita Broaddrick rips Time’s ‘silence breakers’ snub: ‘I didn’t fit in their liberal victim mold’: click

I thought the interview Tucker Carlson did about that was a pretty good exchange.

The first guest was okay, second guest was much better, IMO. Good debate beginning at just past the 6 minute mark.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uVtBhJVD3xw
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Re: The Perfect Storm continues

Postby KEND on Wed Dec 20, 2017 1:16 pm

As is often the case an attempt at correcting a long time problem with harassment and rape swings to the other extreme. The Met. police in London acting on the orders of overzealous prosecutors seem to have thrown the rulebook out the window. Two cases were dismissed and another 30 under review. A cause for celebration, hardly, it makes legitimate complainants more wary about coming forward.


Rape trial falls apart after accuser’s 40,000 texts are revealed
By Victoria Craw, News.com.au
December 16, 2017 | 12:40pm
A student has described going through “mental torture” after a rape case against him was thrown out in court because police had failed to hand over more than 40,000 messages from his accuser.
Liam Allan, 22, faced up to ten years in jail charged with six counts of rape and six counts of sexual assault against a young woman over a 14-month period that began when he was 19.
The criminology student at Greenwich University had spent nearly two years on bail and three days in Croydon Crown Court when the trial was stopped in a dramatic fashion after it emerged police officers had failed to hand over evidence that proved his innocence.
The alleged victim had claimed she did not enjoy sex, while Mr Allan claimed it was consensual and she was acting maliciously because he refused to see her after he returned to university.
Now, the judge has called for an inquiry at the “very highest level” to understand why police failed to hand over critical evidence including 40,000 messages from the accuser to Mr Allan and friends.
The messages showed how she had continually messaged Mr Allan for “casual sex”, said how much she enjoyed it and discussed fantasies of violent sex and rape, The Times reports.
Outside the court, Mr Allan said he went through “mental torture” over the two year period and relied on the system to uncover evidence that would exonerate him.
When first accused, he turned to a local lawyer he had done work experience with and said he was terrified at the idea of going to prison with sex offenders and worried about what would happen to his mum and flatmates when he was away.
“You are all on your own. I could not talk to my mother about the details of the case because she might have been called as a witness. I couldn’t talk with my friends because they might have been called. I felt completely isolated at every stage of the process,” he said.
“I can’t explain the mental torture of the past two years. … I feel betrayed by the system which I had believed would do the right thing, the system I want to work in.”
The life-changing discovery was made at the 11th hour when a new prosecutor, Jerry Hayes, took over the case one day before the trial began and ordered police to hand over records — including a computer disk that contained 40,000 messages.
Mr Allan’s lawyers had already sought access to the accusers’s telephone records and messages but their requests were denied on the basis there was nothing of interest in them.
Upon discovering the messages, Mr Hayes said he would offer no evidence in court and would like to “apologise” to Mr Allan.
“There was a terrible failure in disclosure which was inexcusable,” he said. “There could have been a serious miscarriage of justice, which could have led to a very significant period of imprisonment and life on the sex offenders register. It appears the officer in the case has not reviewed the disk, which is quite appalling.”
Speaking later, he said detectives had previously told him the sexual messages were “too personal” to share.
“The defence quickly saw the information blew the prosecution out of the water. If they had not been seen this boy faced 12 years in prison and on the sex offenders’ register for life with little chance of appeal. This was a massive miscarriage of justice, which thank heavens was avoided,” he told the BBC.
Judge Peter Gower said Mr Allan was not guilty on all charges.
“There is something that has gone wrong and it is a matter that the Crown Prosecution Service (CPS) in my judgment should be considering at the very highest level,” he said.
“Mr Allan leaves the courtroom an innocent man without a stain on his character.”
Mr Allan’s defence lawyer Julia Smart said she also received details about the text messages the night before she was due to cross examine the accuser, and when she told the court of her findings the trial was scrapped.
Mr Allan’s mum, Lorraine Allan, 46, said the “current climate” means that many people are treated as “guilty until you can prove you’re innocent.”
A spokesman for London Metropolitan Police said: “We are aware of this case being dismissed from court and are carrying out an urgent assessment to establish the circumstances which led to this action being taken.
“We are working closely with the Crown Prosecution Service and keeping in close contact with the victim while this process takes place.”
The Crown Prosecution Service said they will not conduct a “management review” with the Metropolitian Police to “examine the way in which the case was handled.”
Mr Hayes, who is a former Conservative MP, wrote in The Times the case marked the most “appalling failure of disclosure I have ever encountered.”
“The CPS are under terrible pressure, as are the police. Both work hard but are badly under-resourced.
“Crown court trials only work because of the co-operation and goodwill of advocates and the bench — but time pressures are making this increasingly difficult.
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Re: The Perfect Storm continues

Postby Steve James on Wed Dec 20, 2017 3:17 pm

Yeah, I think it is worrying that any woman I've slept with could later claim rape. I don't think that has anything to do with any current climate. These threads have been about sexual harassment, not rape. But, afa Mr. Allen's case, it seems that the woman was disturbed. Moreover, false rape claims are nothing new. This guy's case is two years old, and he's been set free. Of course, the charges were dismissed because of emails... about rape fantasies... that were not disclosed. Imo, women who might fantasize about being raped don't necessarily want to be raped. That's why they call it a fantasy. And, if a man were to write that he wanted to tie his girlfriend up and have his way wouldn't prove that he did it.

Oh well, I've been lucky.
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Re: The Perfect Storm continues

Postby KEND on Thu Jan 11, 2018 5:35 pm

Hollywood has spoken. The recent ‘black’ display at the golden globes awards is typical self aggrandizement that we have come to expect. A parade of stars still acting like sheep in $50k low cut dresses [look but don’t touch] congratulating themselves for keeping quiet for years. Rose McGowan who outed Weinstein was not there but tonya harding was[Nancy eat your heart out].Oprah, for whom I have great respect gave a stirring speech but if you think about it it should have been powerful women like Oprah and Sherry Lancing, who should have done the outing. These shows which have nothing to do with cinema and everything to do with self promotion, yet another red carpet occasion where hypocrisy reigns. Below is a comment from the French movie stars, I don’t agree with the ‘flirting’ but at least they are aware of the dangers, Valerie Solanas would feel at home at the globes The question now is what will be the theme,
orange is the new black.

Catherine Deneuve denounces #MeToo in open letter
By Frank Andrews, Yelena Peigne and Judith Vonberg, CNN
Updated 8:33 AM ET, Thu January 11, 2018
Paris (CNN)A collective of 100 French women including film star Catherine Deneuve have signed an open letter defending men's "freedom to pester" women, sparking an angry response from a group of feminist activists.
The open letter, which criticized the #MeToo movement and warned about a new "puritanism" sparked by recent sexual harassment allegations, was published Tuesday in French newspaper Le Monde.
The group of writers, performers, academics and businesswomen denounced a "hatred of men and sexuality" and the recent wave of "denunciations." Men's "freedom to pester" is "indispensable to sexual freedom," they wrote.
"Rape is a crime, but insistent or clumsy flirting is not an offense, nor is gallantry macho aggression."
A group of around 30 activists, led by prominent feminist Caroline De Haas, responded on Wednesday with a scathing critique, published on France Info.
They accused the signatories of deliberately mixing "seduction, based on respect and pleasure, with violence."
"Sexual violence is not 'intensified flirting,'" they wrote. "One means treating the other as your equal, respecting their desires, whatever they may be. The other is treating them as an object at your disposal, paying no attention to their own desires, or their consent."
They also criticized the letter's claim that the movement risks going "too far," and the suggestion that it's the responsibility of women to protect themselves from intimidation.
"When will we ask the question about men's responsibility to not rape or abuse?" they wrote, describing the letter as "a bit like the annoying colleague or the tiring uncle who doesn't really understand what's going on around him."
Sandra Muller, founder of the #BalanceTonPorc ("squeal on your pig") movement -- the French equivalent of #MeToo -- also denounced Tuesday's letter.
Speaking to CNN, she described it as "buzz for the sake of buzz" and criticized the signatories, saying "they are just going to sap the morale of the numerous victims who try to have a bit of courage."
"Feminism is not about protecting sexual liberation," she added, "but about protecting women."
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