northern_mantis wrote:Imagine being on the receiving end of one of these dubious claims, being discredited in the media, being suspended or sacked from work with no evidence, losing family and friends. Then if you can prove your innocence (because that’s the requirement) the best you can hope for is a footnote of a retraction and you still lose everything you’ve worked for. The accuser is entitled to lifelong anonymity even if proved to be lying. An appalling chapter in human history as far as I’m concerned.
Bao wrote:northern_mantis wrote:Imagine being on the receiving end of one of these dubious claims, being discredited in the media, being suspended or sacked from work with no evidence, losing family and friends. Then if you can prove your innocence (because that’s the requirement) the best you can hope for is a footnote of a retraction and you still lose everything you’ve worked for. The accuser is entitled to lifelong anonymity even if proved to be lying. An appalling chapter in human history as far as I’m concerned.
The issue at hand is not about one timers, about people who did something once. The big issue is about a climate where there are frequent abusers, mostly men who harass women and behaves badly on a daily basis. Nobody here and nobody in traditional media or in social media care about someone who behaved badly once when they were drunk. The people who are being hanged out are men that everyone in their surrounding knows about, men that terrorise their surroundings in different ways, who humiliate people around them every day just because they like it, men there are countless of stories about, men that truly deserve losing their jobs, their friends and family.
Steve James wrote:The thing is that men who haven't abused women, or vice versa, have nothing to fear.
If the allegations are untrue, just sue. Don't pay off.
The innocent tend to fight. The guilty tend to avoid or flee.
I think that a single accusation shouldn't cost anyone his job.
Otoh, when multiple women come forward about being abused by the same guy, who was their boss, that guy needs to go. The punishment should fit the crime.
RobP3 wrote:Agree. The balance has been tipped to one extreme for far too long. I know personally of several women who underwent all types of sexual abuse a few decades back and were never believed and/ or were actively and vigorously discouraged from speaking out and worse. If the price to pay for reversing that is a handful of dubious claims, so be it.
Michael wrote:
Believe every accuser? Every time? Always? That's almost as absurd as most men are sexual predators. I don't think things are that simple. I won't give up the principle of a process of investigation in favor of allowing "a handful of dubious claims" to damage more innocent people. There's a well-established standard in place that is necessary to avoid several pitfalls that arise from letting an accusation go unchallenged.
RobP3 wrote: In the meantime, thousands of other offences, according to all the research, have gone unreported.
Trick wrote:RobP3 wrote: In the meantime, thousands of other offences, according to all the research, have gone unreported.
Kind of until now, at least with the "metoo" movement, and it could create a lot of problem for law enforcement. Who are getting hundreds of abuse offense reports daily about abuse done literally yesterday, and now celebrities come together and accuse and maybe report what happened years maybe decades ago. If the everage girls and guys can report quite immediately celebrities should be able too, then there maybe wouldn't be a storm now
Michael wrote:RobP3 wrote:Agree. The balance has been tipped to one extreme for far too long. I know personally of several women who underwent all types of sexual abuse a few decades back and were never believed and/ or were actively and vigorously discouraged from speaking out and worse. If the price to pay for reversing that is a handful of dubious claims, so be it.
A handful of dubious claims?
Rob, would you be willing to pay that price yourself from a false rape or sexual assault accusation, to lose your reputation, your job, and do time in jail while your family suffers without your presence or your income, all in order to make up for past wrongdoings against women that you think were previously biased in the other direction?
Do you recall the false accusation of rape in a tube station by delusional and/or malicious Souad Faress against a completely innocent man when she said he fingered her while passing by? An obvious impossibility from the very CCTV footage used by police to identify him, yet the case went to trial anyway.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-Uhe5WIfEc
Tried for a sex crime... because I brushed past a film star in rush-hour
So I guess giving the green light to more of this insanity of police not being able to dismiss obvious liars is some kind of reparations for past instances of men mistreating women, and that's men in general, not individual criminals?
Believe every accuser? Every time? Always? That's almost as absurd as most men are sexual predators. I don't think things are that simple. I won't give up the principle of a process of investigation in favor of allowing "a handful of dubious claims" to damage more innocent people. There's a well-established standard in place that is necessary to avoid several pitfalls that arise from letting an accusation go unchallenged.
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