Biased Reporting Against Cheeto Hitler Exposed

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Re: Biased Reporting Against Cheeto Hitler Exposed

Postby oragami_itto on Fri Dec 01, 2017 10:53 am

Michael wrote:tJ, there is a time line to these things. The Flynn story just broke and I was not aware of it until Ian posted that, which is not what I mean by off-topic.


Ah. ,you meant the personal remarks.

Well. Not my cup of tea, personally, but honestly good questions. I don't understand how an honest, decent, and intelligent person can support this organization or this administration. Whether it's malice or naivete is entirely on topic.
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Re: Biased Reporting Against Cheeto Hitler Exposed

Postby Ian C. Kuzushi on Fri Dec 01, 2017 6:08 pm

Posting factual refutations of the OP's claims are hardly off topic, even if the timing is inconvenient for the OP. In a similar way, it is not off topic to bring up posting habits when they follow a strikingly similar pattern.
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Re: Biased Reporting Against Cheeto Hitler Exposed

Postby Michael on Sat Dec 02, 2017 5:46 am

oragami_itto wrote:I don't understand how an honest, decent, and intelligent person can support this organization or this administration. Whether it's malice or naivete is entirely on topic.

You're saying half the country are not honest, not decent and not intelligent, and based on that premise loaded questions presuming they're malicious or naive are entirely on topic. That's absurd. There are other, more likely possibilities, and ones that make discussion a lot easier and persuasive. If you come at people with this kind of attitude, don't you think they're just going to get defensive?
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Re: Biased Reporting Against Cheeto Hitler Exposed

Postby Michael on Sat Dec 02, 2017 5:49 am

oragami_itto wrote:Good media should be biased against the president, that's their job.

Maybe just choice of words, but I would say it's good to be skeptical of every president.

Do you think the media is biased against Trump? Do you think it's appropriately similar bias compared to previous presidents?
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Re: Biased Reporting Against Cheeto Hitler Exposed

Postby Steve James on Sat Dec 02, 2017 8:25 am

Read the history of the First Amendment. It was about what the press (John Peter Zenger) could say about a political leaders. The result was that the press could print what was True.

It's true that the president is criticized, but it's for what he says, doesn't say, and what he does. Is he criticized more? Yes. Is it because of bias or because he just offers more opportunities for criticism? Well, he's criticized in the international press all the time. So, it's no just here.

Yeah, though, I agree that there is a bias against liars, adulterers, gropers, frauds, bigots and lots of things.

Afa intelligence, we know that Trump is more intelligent than most of his supporters. We have to give him that. But way less than half the eligible population voted, and most of them voted for someone else.
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Re: Biased Reporting Against Cheeto Hitler Exposed

Postby oragami_itto on Sat Dec 02, 2017 9:08 am

Michael wrote:
oragami_itto wrote:Good media should be biased against the president, that's their job.

Maybe just choice of words, but I would say it's good to be skeptical of every president.

Do you think the media is biased against Trump? Do you think it's appropriately similar bias compared to previous presidents?


I think Trump is an abomination and deserves every bit of criticism he receives and far more. I think they are going too easy on the piece of shit and in a perfect world he'd already be executed by firing squad
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Re: Biased Reporting Against Cheeto Hitler Exposed

Postby Ian C. Kuzushi on Sat Dec 02, 2017 6:50 pm

Michael wrote:
oragami_itto wrote:Good media should be biased against the president, that's their job.

Maybe just choice of words, but I would say it's good to be skeptical of every president.

Do you think the media is biased against Trump? Do you think it's appropriately similar bias compared to previous presidents?


I've pointed this out before, but it clearly bears repeating:

What is the most popular news TV news outlet by far in the US? Now, how do they report about Trump? Yes, they are insanely biased--to the point of being laughable--but they are biased in his favor.

The same goes for the most popular talk radio shows in the US.

Just because conservatives constantly rail against a "liberal press" doesn't make it true.
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Re: Biased Reporting Against Cheeto Hitler Exposed

Postby edededed on Sat Dec 02, 2017 9:25 pm

1. Almost everyone is biased.
2. Almost everyone believes that they are not biased.
3. Almost everyone happens to have the opinions of where they were raised.

#3 is the red flag - if this applies to you, too, you may want to consider if your opinions are truly your own. No need to be overly-critical of yourself - it is also a product of receiving only selective information (via friends, media, etc.).
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Re: Biased Reporting Against Cheeto Hitler Exposed

Postby Ian C. Kuzushi on Sun Dec 03, 2017 12:59 am

edededed wrote:1. Almost everyone is biased.
2. Almost everyone believes that they are not biased.
3. Almost everyone happens to have the opinions of where they were raised.

#3 is the red flag - if this applies to you, too, you may want to consider if your opinions are truly your own. No need to be overly-critical of yourself - it is also a product of receiving only selective information (via friends, media, etc.).


Of course everyone is biased. But, that "bias" comes from many different factors. I am most biased by my education post-college.

As for your opinion about #3, I think that's BS--at least for me. For example, my parents are extremely conservative and religious, as are most of our family friends. So are most of my siblings, especially the ones who stayed in the same state I grew up in. I, myself, had fairly conservative political views for quite a while and also worked in a conservative environment (construction) for over a decade.

I have also read a fair amount of studies that point out a generational swing--kids rebel against their parents and often hold the opposite view, and this gets balanced out by the next generation. This was true for areas with higher levels of education, as critical thinking seemed to lead to more skepticism of various viewpoints presented from the canon of authority. It was less so for less educated swaths of America.

Still, your point is well taken, Ed. We are all biased. That is one of the reasons that vetting sources is so important. Not the difference between the reaction to a false story coming out from a supposed liberal news outlet (suspension without pay) versus Fox news or Breitbart (accolades).

Anyway, my point stands. The coverage by the most popular news outlet in America, Fox News, has been laughably favorable to Trump, so these claims are ridiculous. Imagine if Obama had done or said half the things Trump has...The White House would have been burned to the ground.
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Re: Biased Reporting Against Cheeto Hitler Exposed

Postby Michael on Sun Dec 03, 2017 7:55 am

oragami_itto wrote:I think Trump is an abomination and deserves every bit of criticism he receives and far more. I think they are going too easy on the piece of shit and in a perfect world he'd already be executed by firing squad

Like Steve said, a lot of the criticism is deserved, how much of that is for actual policy, how much for style and how much perception is not clear.

So why do you want him executed?
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Re: Biased Reporting Against Cheeto Hitler Exposed

Postby edededed on Sun Dec 03, 2017 8:09 am

Re #3: It says "almost!" :D It is also a simplification, but the main idea is that opinions are mostly absorbed, not made. I do like your example (of yourself) there - it shows how change can occur (gradually), usually from youth. Your main point is key, though - we should always strive to obtain/check the facts, before deciding on strong opinions.

Of course, many people are wary of education as being biased itself - but primary sources have no inherent opinions of themselves. Education can be biased, but good education should be the opposite of bias!

Besides the news outlets of the US, there is also BBC, etc. around the world that we can also compare with. (I like BBC, which feels a bit more neutral - although they have a very unhealthy fascination with their royals.)

Incidentally, my background sounds similar to yours in a lot of ways.
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Re: Biased Reporting Against Cheeto Hitler Exposed

Postby Steve James on Sun Dec 03, 2017 8:48 am

Bias is like prejudice and discrimination: whether it's right or wrong depends on the actual subject. Bias just means "lean" or "leaning", and we all have biases about ourselves, our families, our communities, and about people who aren't part those groups. We can't eliminate our biases, but we can be aware of and acknowledge them. There's no reason to be held prisoner by them.

Anyway, to me that means that I always question any decision I make about anyone who's not a black, American, male, college professor. It's easy to be self-interested, and there's never any objective value to supporting issues that only affect people like me. Of course, that leaves me with an unlimited supply of opportunities to support issues that may not benefit me.
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Re: Biased Reporting Against Cheeto Hitler Exposed

Postby edededed on Sun Dec 03, 2017 5:11 pm

Ah - I should have said, "unconscious bias."

But yeah, self-interest is always a big factor - not surprising that Asian-Americans are most interested in Asian-American issues, Latinos/Latinas are most interested in Latino/Latina issues, etc. It would be an interesting world if it got mixed around on the other hand!

In one sense, the people at RSF are a weird subset of the population who have an unnaturally strong interest (and knowledge) in certain Asian cultures, certainly greater than the average.
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Re: Biased Reporting Against Cheeto Hitler Exposed

Postby Ian C. Kuzushi on Mon Dec 04, 2017 8:09 am

edededed wrote:Re #3: It says "almost!" :D It is also a simplification, but the main idea is that opinions are mostly absorbed, not made. I do like your example (of yourself) there - it shows how change can occur (gradually), usually from youth. Your main point is key, though - we should always strive to obtain/check the facts, before deciding on strong opinions.

Of course, many people are wary of education as being biased itself - but primary sources have no inherent opinions of themselves. Education can be biased, but good education should be the opposite of bias!

Besides the news outlets of the US, there is also BBC, etc. around the world that we can also compare with. (I like BBC, which feels a bit more neutral - although they have a very unhealthy fascination with their royals.)

Incidentally, my background sounds similar to yours in a lot of ways.


All good. It's all food for though.

As for news, I don't use it to formulate my ideas, but I do watch it from time to time to see where some other people do. I watch equal amounts of Fox, CNN, Local (US). I also watch a smatterin of the online shows like infowars (oh my!) and TYT. More than anything I watch Japanese local and national news for class. I read the news media broadly too. I don't really like any of the big Western Outlets. I agree that the BBC and Al Jazeera can be nice in that they are not constantlty focused on US politics. I also notice that Fox seems to have a lot more opinion shows with people yelling at me. Not really news, but I can see how some people would be strongly influenced if they were already open for that kind of messaging. MSNBC is pretty much just as full of it, but they were specifically designed after the Fox model. CNN has a veneer of legitimacy, but I really soured on them during the election.

As Steve often says, best to just look at what people are saying for themselves. As for my political and social views, those come from reading history (social, political, and economic). They are also constantly changing--not sure if maturing is the right word ;D ).
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Re: Biased Reporting Against Cheeto Hitler Exposed

Postby Steve James on Mon Dec 04, 2017 8:36 am

Nowadays, news has become entertainment meant to satisfy the viewer and ultimately get advertisement dollars. Politics has simply become the game show, sitcom, sport, or other medium to seduce the audience. That's why most of the "news" is just commentary by one or more entertainment personality who interprets what the news means.
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