the UFO or not stuff

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the UFO or not stuff

Postby everything on Mon Dec 18, 2017 8:56 pm

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/16/us/p ... .html?_r=0

WASHINGTON — In the $600 billion annual Defense Department budgets, the $22 million spent on the Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program was almost impossible to find.

Which was how the Pentagon wanted it.

For years, the program investigated reports of unidentified flying objects, according to Defense Department officials, interviews with program participants and records obtained by The New York Times. It was run by a military intelligence official, Luis Elizondo, on the fifth floor of the Pentagon’s C Ring, deep within the building’s maze.

The Defense Department has never before acknowledged the existence of the program, which it says it shut down in 2012.
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Re: the UFO or not stuff

Postby RobP3 on Tue Dec 19, 2017 3:50 am

Distraction or disclosure?
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Re: the UFO or not stuff

Postby middleway on Tue Dec 19, 2017 4:31 am

I dont see what is suprising about this article, It just seems very obvious that all governments would have similar programes in their defence plan. If China send up an advanced Drone of a format never seen before, the US will want to have some department or other that can look into its capability etc.

I always wonder what sort of spooky stuff there is behind the curtains of the Black Budget's of the world. I personally highly doubt that 'Aliens' are involved in any of it (although i used to be a huge believer). Remembering that the SR71 was being flown around in the 60's, The F117 in 70's ... the sort of tech in the drone projects of today and their resultant capabilities might be pretty mind blowing. In the first video he clearly states, 'This is a frikking Drone Bro'.

As with the SR 71 and U2 Programes out of Area 51 it is highly unlikely that any other military branch has any understanding of these craft or projects and, as was the case with those programs, US military air craft way well be inadvertantly reporting sighting of US experimental aircraft. The UFO report is a great cover.

Secondly, 22mil is an absolute drop in the ocean. Sounds like a VERY small program which was researching UFOs (NOTE: that does NOT mean of extra terrestial origin) and maybe known advanced aerospace threats.

Bare in mind that the USA were able to 'lose' 11 Billion in Iraq and be ok with that. The 22mil comes into sharp focus.
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Re: the UFO or not stuff

Postby Steve James on Tue Dec 19, 2017 7:39 am

Of course it,makes sense to study Unknown flying objects in our airspace. The only reasons for the debate are the preconceptions of what the object is or isn't, and the desires to confirm that ETs are here and the government knows it.

The fact is that it could have been an angel, devil, or faerie, unless one relies on science. When someone can prove that it was an angel or magic, or vice versa, I consider it still Unknown --especially to the government.

I agree that extra terrestrial intelligent life may exist. However, we can barely communicate with intelligent animals on Earth. There's little reason we can communicate with other life forms. And, imo, it's more likely that we'll treat aliens no better than immigrants or domestic animals. I think it'd be better for everyone if we don't meet for a long time.
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Re: the UFO or not stuff

Postby Bill on Tue Dec 19, 2017 8:47 am

Steve James wrote: And, imo, it's more likely that we'll treat aliens no better than immigrants or domestic animals. I think it'd be better for everyone if we don't meet for a long time.


I think you have that backwards, The aliens, who can cross the distances of space, will treat us like domestic animals, or pets.

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Re: the UFO or not stuff

Postby Steve James on Tue Dec 19, 2017 9:16 am

Well, you say that from the perspective that they will be like us and do what we do. I.e., bring weapons to deal with those we meet. If you're right, and aliens have been here, then they're not like us. My argument is that I see no reason to believe that humans would act any differently with aliens than they do without each other today. It's clear that we are the danger, so far. Só, it's better if we don't meet. It'd be Columbus 2.0. There's not a religious or philosophical reason why it wouldn't. Nowadays especially.
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Re: the UFO or not stuff

Postby Peacedog on Tue Dec 19, 2017 9:50 am

Frankly this is the kind of thing that I see government, and I say this rarely, is probably the best choice for funding.

The free market works and is the reason why the West has had a superior standard of living against the rest of the world since about 1100 AD.

If no viable path exists to pay for a line of research then it doesn't happen.

This is the kind of thing that might be handled via a prize system, i.e. we'll pay you $100 million if you find proof of extra-terrestrial life, but that generally works best for technology that is "not quite ready for primetime."

The UFO thing is so far out of the box that it probably wouldn't work in that context.

So, a very modest government expenditure to make sure we are not caught off guard by a remotely possible event is well worth doing.
Last edited by Peacedog on Tue Dec 19, 2017 9:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: the UFO or not stuff

Postby RobP3 on Tue Dec 19, 2017 10:56 am

Peacedog wrote:Frankly this is the kind of thing that I see government, and I say this rarely, is probably the best choice for funding.

The free market works and is the reason why the West has had a superior standard of living against the rest of the world since about 1100 AD.

If no viable path exists to pay for a line of research then it doesn't happen.

This is the kind of thing that might be handled via a prize system, i.e. we'll pay you $100 million if you find proof of extra-terrestrial life, but that generally works best for technology that is "not quite ready for primetime."

The UFO thing is so far out of the box that it probably wouldn't work in that context.

So, a very modest government expenditure to make sure we are not caught off guard by a remotely possible event is well worth doing.


So our progress as a race depends purely on the profit motivation? Interesting in respect of aliens. What if they offer us advanced technology such as free energy?
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Re: the UFO or not stuff

Postby oragami_itto on Wed Dec 20, 2017 6:11 am

Government spending gave us the internet and a ton of other technology that the free market exploits daily.
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Re: the UFO or not stuff

Postby Trick on Wed Dec 20, 2017 7:05 am

RobP3 wrote: What if they offer us advanced technology such as free energy?

Our rulers wouldn't like that, find those aliens quick enslave them or eliminate them 8-)
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Re: the UFO or not stuff

Postby Steve James on Wed Dec 20, 2017 7:25 am

Trick wrote:
RobP3 wrote: What if they offer us advanced technology such as free energy?

Our rulers wouldn't like that, find those aliens quick enslave them or eliminate them 8-)


Sure. Think it through, knowing what we know. For ex., if ets came, and it was possible for us to communicate with them, who would we delegate to talk to them? What if they could only communicate with people who spoke some obscure language in the "third world"? What if they had advanced materials or technology, and suppose they wanted to share, but they didn't have enough? Who would we allow to have it? Would we take it? Suppose we had something they wanted, but it was only in Djibouti or Ireland?

Well, imo, an intelligent life form with extraterrestrial capabilities would take a long hard look at any other life forms they discovered. They'd be the ones deciding who they'd contact and when. If they've taken people and anal-probed them, it means they're smart enough to maintain a safe distance. We know that whatever advanced technology they'd have would not be shared by humans --at least at this point in our history. The only positive result of meeting extraterrestrials would be the emergence of a sense of our being "terrestrials" as opposed to "nationals."

Meh, I'm more a "Day the Earth Stood Still" than a "War of the Worlds" kind of guy. The Keanu version sucked except for when he said "Yourplanet?" to the president.
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Re: the UFO or not stuff

Postby Trick on Thu Dec 21, 2017 2:24 am

Steve James wrote:
Trick wrote:
RobP3 wrote: What if they offer us advanced technology such as free energy?

Our rulers wouldn't like that, find those aliens quick enslave them or eliminate them 8-)


Sure. Think it through, knowing what we know. For ex., if ets came, and it was possible for us to communicate with them, who would we delegate to talk to them? What if they could only communicate with people who spoke some obscure language in the "third world"? What if they had advanced materials or technology, and suppose they wanted to share, but they didn't have enough? Who would we allow to have it? Would we take it? Suppose we had something they wanted, but it was only in Djibouti or Ireland?

Well, imo, an intelligent life form with extraterrestrial capabilities would take a long hard look at any other life forms they discovered. They'd be the ones deciding who they'd contact and when. If they've taken people and anal-probed them, it means they're smart enough to maintain a safe distance. We know that whatever advanced technology they'd have would not be shared by humans --at least at this point in our history. The only positive result of meeting extraterrestrials would be the emergence of a sense of our being "terrestrials" as opposed to "nationals."

Meh, I'm more a "Day the Earth Stood Still" than a "War of the Worlds" kind of guy. The Keanu version sucked except for when he said "Yourplanet?" to the president.

Sci-FI novels/movies gives us food for thoughts. I'm on your line that Aliens would probably not make direct contact until we reach a " higher level" maybe they see some potential in us and would give us small pieces of stepping stones that leads us in the right direction... I like Carl Sagan's "Contact", maybe "mathematics" would be the universal "basic" language.
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Re: the UFO or not stuff

Postby Michael on Thu Dec 21, 2017 9:32 am

Let the record show that Steve was the first one to mention anal probes. :D



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