Meet the Women Worried About #MeToo

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Re: Meet the Women Worried About #MeToo

Postby RobP3 on Wed Feb 14, 2018 2:34 am

Meanwhile in the UK 'Black-cab rapist' John Worboys to be freed from jail'

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-42571219
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Re: Meet the Women Worried About #MeToo

Postby Michael on Wed Feb 14, 2018 2:44 am

Just got done reading all about the Wheaton story. Read the basics on the black cab rapist last time it was posted. Horrible.
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Re: Meet the Women Worried About #MeToo

Postby oragami_itto on Wed Feb 14, 2018 9:55 am

8 years, 100 rapes. What was that you were saying about how tough it is for rapists?
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Re: Meet the Women Worried About #MeToo

Postby Michael on Wed Feb 14, 2018 10:19 am

Maybe it's just tougher in Texas.
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Re: Meet the Women Worried About #MeToo

Postby oragami_itto on Wed Feb 14, 2018 11:51 am

We do occasionally get some things right, but if you think four consecutive life sentences is too hard for filming yourself repeatedly raping a 3 year old.... I got nothing.

A fitting punishment would be dragging his ass behind a car going 10 miles an hour all the way from El Paso to Orange.
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Re: Meet the Women Worried About #MeToo

Postby grzegorz on Wed Feb 14, 2018 12:39 pm

Ian C. Kuzushi wrote:
Michael wrote:
grzegorz wrote:Where did you hear that? Because i haven't. In fact I have heard that drug convictions get the longest sentences at least they did during Reagan's war on drugs.

I ask because I have seen and heard of many people getting away with a slap on the wrist for a rape charge yet had it been murder the sentence would have been longer.

I would check my sources on that because I think in 2018 in my particular state your statement doesn't hold up.

In Texas, it's anywhere from 2 to 99 years. There's a large gradient of offenses in that category.


Hmm, perhaps a better way to put that would that there is a wide degree latitude granted to judges in sentencing. That is what is evidenced by what we see not only in Tehas, but elsewhere, too.

Make no mistake, rapists of men and boys should face similar sentencing. But, they don't. See the recent gang rape by Wheaton college football players who had to...wait for it...write an 8 page essay after forcibly abducting and sodomizing their underclassman. Boys will be boys.


Exactly! I have not seen any evidence that murders are given lighter sentences which is what we were discussing. 2 years? Doesn't sound harsh to me. I am sure in Texas a weed dealer would get more time. I could be wrong though.

Saying that, I don't think the metoo movement is about prison sentences as much as it is about citizens engaging in forms of protests. The same ways citizens speak out for or against abortions, taxes, wages, fire arms, equal rights or any other issue.

Unfortunately this non-political issue has been made political because Trump is president. To me it is not a political issue it is a human rights issue.
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Re: Meet the Women Worried About #MeToo

Postby Michael on Thu Feb 15, 2018 7:37 am

oragami_itto wrote:We do occasionally get some things right, but if you think four consecutive life sentences is too hard for filming yourself repeatedly raping a 3 year old.... I got nothing.

A fitting punishment would be dragging his ass behind a car going 10 miles an hour all the way from El Paso to Orange.

Not sure if you're talking to me, but in case I missed something in this thread, then no, four consecutive life sentences is fine with me for repeatedly raping a 3 year old.

That said, I just watched an hour long interview with a former bank robber who got 12 years for 5 robberies, but found his calling in the klink as a jailhouse lawyer, "winning" two cases at the Supreme Court, and later becoming a "real" lawyer when he was released. He said that he deserved his first 5 years in prison, but by then it was obvious to him and most others that he was actually reformed and no longer a threat to anyone, and the next 6 years incarcerated were not affected by his continually useful work producing legal briefs for other inmates.

Generally, I think long prison sentences are the wrong way to go and I wish our society had the insight to deal with these problems another way. There are of course exceptions. I remember one time another RSF member said that some crimes really do deserve the death penalty, but it being available means some will receive it unjustly, so I can't be in favor of it. That's my view as well.
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Re: Meet the Women Worried About #MeToo

Postby grzegorz on Thu Feb 15, 2018 9:58 am

Speaking of going to jail in Texas.

The sale of just 7 grams (roughly one-quarter ounce) of cannabis also carries a maximum penalty of 180 days in jail and a possible $2,000 fine. But selling more than 50 pounds of the herb (a felony) can land you in prison for 99 years, with a mandatory minimum sentence of five years. Selling any amount of marijuana to a minor is a felony, with a maximum sentence of 20 years.


http://statelaws.findlaw.com/texas-law/ ... -laws.html
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Re: Meet the Women Worried About #MeToo

Postby oragami_itto on Thu Feb 15, 2018 8:10 pm

Michael wrote:That said, I just watched an hour long interview with a former bank robber who got 12 years for 5 robberies, but found his calling in the klink as a jailhouse lawyer, "winning" two cases at the Supreme Court, and later becoming a "real" lawyer when he was released. He said that he deserved his first 5 years in prison, but by then it was obvious to him and most others that he was actually reformed and no longer a threat to anyone, and the next 6 years incarcerated were not affected by his continually useful work producing legal briefs for other inmates.

We need a better rehabilitation model instead of simply warehousing people until they've had enough time to think about what they did wrong. It may never happen though, because the money is in prisoners, not free citizens.
Generally, I think long prison sentences are the wrong way to go and I wish our society had the insight to deal with these problems another way. There are of course exceptions. I remember one time another RSF member said that some crimes really do deserve the death penalty, but it being available means some will receive it unjustly, so I can't be in favor of it. That's my view as well.

When the lives of the innocent are so cheap and readily spent, I can't shed a tear for the guilty.
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Re: Meet the Women Worried About #MeToo

Postby Michael on Thu Feb 15, 2018 8:41 pm

oragami_itto wrote:
Michael wrote:Generally, I think long prison sentences are the wrong way to go and I wish our society had the insight to deal with these problems another way. There are of course exceptions. I remember one time another RSF member said that some crimes really do deserve the death penalty, but it being available means some will receive it unjustly, so I can't be in favor of it. That's my view as well.

When the lives of the innocent are so cheap and readily spent, I can't shed a tear for the guilty.

I think from a practical standpoint, it would mean less crime.
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Re: Meet the Women Worried About #MeToo

Postby klonk on Sun Feb 18, 2018 1:32 pm

Steve James wrote:Hmm, that's an ad hominem that does nothing to support any argument.


Ah not so. An ad hominem is an attack on the speaker, or a support of the speaker (most people don't know that second part.) But pointing out a red herring is merely a service to reason in general.
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Re: Meet the Women Worried About #MeToo

Postby Steve James on Sun Feb 18, 2018 2:01 pm

klonk wrote:
Steve James wrote:Hmm, that's an ad hominem that does nothing to support any argument.


Ah not so. An ad hominem is an attack on the speaker, or a support of the speaker (most people don't know that second part.) But pointing out a red herring is merely a service to reason in general.


Nope, your point was that because I specifically said that rape was not the central issue that I was using a rhetorical trick. As a matter of fact, rape had been brought up earlier, and was brought up later.

All that was necessary for your argument was to say that rape was irrelevant. Rather, you criticized me for pointing that out. However, that doesn't address the issue of sexual harassment or argue anything about the #metoo movement, just about me. But, so what? The point of "to the man" arguments is that they can be ignored. Ok, I'm trying to trick you again.
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Re: Meet the Women Worried About #MeToo

Postby klonk on Sun Feb 18, 2018 4:27 pm

Steve, did it ever dawn on you that "my experience is as a (fill in the blank)" is in itself ad hominem?

Rather, you criticized me


I saw nothing personal in identifying cod swallop.
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Re: Meet the Women Worried About #MeToo

Postby Steve James on Sun Feb 18, 2018 4:39 pm

klonk wrote:Steve, did it ever dawn on you that "my experience is as a (fill in the blank)" is in itself ad hominem?


? Well, fill in the blank to make a sentence of "my experience is as a (fill in the blank)." But, no, it's not an ad hominem fallacy to cite experience. It's an appeal to (personal) authority. Otoh, it is an ad hominem to argue that a person has no authority. It's a logical fallacy, but it can be true. I can say that Einstein is wrong all I want, but I can't say that it's because "of my experience" so I know better. And, if someone says that I'm wrong because I'm no authority, that'd be an ad hominem. But, it would probably be true.
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Re: Meet the Women Worried About #MeToo

Postby klonk on Sun Feb 18, 2018 5:05 pm

I suppose the grievance studies department makes its own rules of logic.
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