Meet the Women Worried About #MeToo

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Meet the Women Worried About #MeToo

Postby Michael on Tue Dec 19, 2017 9:53 am

It's good to have a balanced view on things, especially social orthodoxy promoted by the mainstream media. Here are the opinions of several women about the down side of the #MeToo movement. I think they raise many good points and are correct. "They're doing God's work," as Ian said.

MEET THE WOMEN WORRIED ABOUT #METOO
Thirteen bold women on why we must reject victimhood.

http://www.spiked-online.com/newsite/article/meet-the-women-worried-about-metoo/20639#.Wjf_srenGUk
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Re: Meet the Women Worried About #MeToo

Postby Michael on Tue Dec 19, 2017 9:54 am

From the article:

Lionel Shriver wrote:I am concerned that we are throwing knee-touching into the same basket as rape, which does a grievous disservice to mere knee-touchers and rape victims both.

Lionel is an author, most recently of The Standing Chandelier, and winner of the Orange Prize for Fiction.

Christina Hoff Sommers says wrote:The #MeToo movement seems to be devolving into an anti-male grievance-fest.

Christina is an author, resident scholar at the American Enterprise Institute and host of The Factual Feminist.

Nathalie Rothschild says… wrote:Why is the #Metoo campaign worrying? It is hard to know where to begin.

I could discuss how it is normalising the kind of mob behaviour that is the most negative aspect of internet culture, and how it is eroding the presumption of innocence.

I could mention how the insistence that men are complicit in perpetuating a ‘rape culture’ characterised by a ‘continuum of abuse’ – running from lockerroom banter to gang rape – demonises half the world’s population and relativises, and therefore trivialises, sexual violence.

Nathalie is a print and broadcast journalist based in Stockholm, Sweden.

Wendy Kaminer says… wrote:#MeToo is the unthinking woman’s anti-harassment crusade. It commands us to ‘believe the women’ unthinkingly, without considering the seriousness or plausibility of their claims.

Wendy is a lawyer, author and a former national board member of the American Civil Liberties Union.

Julia Hartley-Brewer says… wrote:The #MeToo campaign is very worrying and will achieve the opposite of what it pretends to want. The hashtag claims to be about empowering women to speak out when actually it is turning women into perpetual victims.

Julia is a journalist, broadcaster and host at talkRADIO.

Emily Yoffe says… wrote:We should not tolerate sexual harassment. But I am worried that, with the growing consensus that there should be ‘zero tolerance’ for sexual harassment, we will make the same mistake regarding the workplace that we’ve made with other social problems in recent decades.

Emily is a journalist and contributing editor at the Atlantic.

Mary Kenny says wrote:No woman should be coerced into sexual relations – let alone raped – and moral codes exist for a reason. Yet sexual relations are complex...If we are honest with ourselves, we know how many layers of complexity there can be in jest, flirtation, a look, a sigh, a word. Women have often warmed to a touch, a joke, a comment which implies interest or pursuit. That is not harassment.

Mary is a journalist and the author of Am I a Feminist? Are You?.

Claire Berlinski says… wrote:The #MeToo movement has exposed allegations of very serious sexual crimes and the degree to which women are simply fed up. This is healthy, up to a point. But we are way past that point.

It has now morphed into a mass hysteria. Men have been accused of transgressions no reasonable person would define as a crime. And this crime comes with a swift and terrifying penalty, but has no clear definition and no statute of limitations. This is juridically and morally absurd.

Claire is a novelist and journalist. Donate towards her new book: Stitch by Stitch.

Cathy Young says… wrote:The post-Harvey Weinstein #MeToo momentum has ended the silence surrounding sexual abuse committed by a number of wealthy and powerful men, so it’s difficult not to see a positive side. But it is also increasingly clear that this cultural moment has turned into an orgy of female victimhood and the demonisation of men.

Cathy is a journalist and the author of Ceasefire!: Why Women and Men Must Join Forces to Achieve True Equality.

Rita Panahi says… wrote:Due process and the presumption of innocence cannot be forgotten in our eagerness to embolden women coming forward with allegations of harassment and sexual assault. There must be a balance between believing women and ensuring that the lives of innocent people are not destroyed.

Rita is a journalist and columnist for the Herald Sun, in Australia.

Joanna Williams says… wrote:One of the worst things about the #MeToo panic is the impact it has on informal workplace relations. Yes, people still socialise in mixed groups and colleagues still share confidences behind closed doors. But, at the same time, a new wariness has taken hold. A voice in our heads asks how our interactions might be interpreted by others. Is it best to leave the office door open? Invite a third party along to the lunch meeting? Under what circumstances can you hug a colleague? Or touch their elbow?

Joanna is spiked’s education editor and author of Women vs Feminism: Why We All Need Liberating from the Gender Wars

Claire Fox says… wrote:#MeToo has morphed into a campaign that brooks no dissent. Raise qualms and watch the insults roll. Critics are told they are suffering from internalised misogyny, are in denial, or are too old to understand the horrors of leering bosses.

Claire is author of I Find That Offensive and director of the Institute of Ideas.


Ella Whelan says… wrote:#MeToo has been hailed as a revelatory moment. But the truth is, there’s little new about this obsession with phantom sexual-harassment epidemics. #MeToo might have been spurred on by news of a fat old perv in Hollywood, but the feminist narrative of victimised women has been around for a long time.

Ella is assistant editor at spiked and author of What Women Want: Fun, Freedom and an End to Feminism.
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Re: Meet the Women Worried About #MeToo

Postby Steve James on Tue Dec 19, 2017 10:14 am

Too many "Sexual harassment is terrible, but..." arguments. Yeah, it's gone too far. They (MSM, feminists, etc.) need to shut up.
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Re: Meet the Women Worried About #MeToo

Postby RobP3 on Tue Dec 19, 2017 10:53 am

Michael wrote:It's good to have a balanced view on things,


Isn't it just. When will these whiney women stop complaining, eh, so we can get back to a balanced view.
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Re: Meet the Women Worried About #MeToo

Postby klonk on Tue Dec 19, 2017 10:21 pm

I'm glad that people are figuring out the witchhunt tone and the cheap shot accusations.

There are always unintended consequences. Lately when socially meeting women I suspect of feminism in any degree, I keep my hands touching each other (The Chinese showed me that this can look refined) and I speak to such women only in NVN linguistic structure.

(For the benefit of any Jarheads reading this, NVN means NOUN-VERB-NOUN, not North Vietnam.) ;D
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Re: Meet the Women Worried About #MeToo

Postby everything on Tue Dec 19, 2017 10:42 pm

uh what is noun-verb-noun for?
amateur practices til gets right pro til can't get wrong
/ better approx answer to right q than exact answer to wrong q which can be made precise /
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Re: Meet the Women Worried About #MeToo

Postby jimmy on Tue Dec 19, 2017 11:00 pm

fech y'all bishes...
grow some vaginas y'all pathetic little men...
:-*

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Re: Meet the Women Worried About #MeToo

Postby klonk on Tue Dec 19, 2017 11:01 pm

everything wrote:uh what is noun-verb-noun for?


Since even innocent conversation is accusable of something somehow, it is best to keep things simple and plausibly deniable.

We eat dinner.

You go home.

--Going out and being sociable in the day of #mEOWtOO
Last edited by klonk on Tue Dec 19, 2017 11:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Meet the Women Worried About #MeToo

Postby Ian C. Kuzushi on Tue Dec 19, 2017 11:11 pm

It's funny, I, nor any of my friends, have trouble dating intelligent, attractive women without being accused of sexual assault. Hmmm, what is there really to worry about? Of course, some jobs present problematic situations. I never let the door close when talking with students in office hours, I would never date a person I had power over in such a relation, either. Yeah, that's not how things used to be, but it's better.
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Re: Meet the Women Worried About #MeToo

Postby klonk on Tue Dec 19, 2017 11:27 pm

I was saying forty years ago that a certain mode or spirit in feminism was counter to Darwin, and I cannot see that events prove me wrong.

My precautions are temporary until the witchhunt spirit subsides, and do not apply in any case to prior-established interpersonal understandings about why we are there. They apply where misunderstandings may arise (innocently or nearly so, for my part) and be milked.

It is a case of fearing the false witness.
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Re: Meet the Women Worried About #MeToo

Postby Ian C. Kuzushi on Wed Dec 20, 2017 12:17 am

And my point is that, while there may be some very small amount of that, it's blown out of proportion and the motives behind that are highly suspect.

Darwinism is not really a concern of mine if we are talking about mankind, especially post-industrialization.
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Re: Meet the Women Worried About #MeToo

Postby RobP3 on Wed Dec 20, 2017 4:07 am

Ian C. Kuzushi wrote:And my point is that, while there may be some very small amount of that, it's blown out of proportion and the motives behind that are highly suspect.



This.

Some pesky figures again.

"Research for the Home Office suggests that only 4 per cent of cases of sexual violence reported to the UK police are found or suspected to be false. Studies carried out in Europe and in the US indicate rates of between 2 per cent and 6 per cent."

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/false-sexual-violence-assault-rape-allegations-truth-rare-international-day-for-the-elimination-of-a8077876.html
Last edited by RobP3 on Wed Dec 20, 2017 4:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Meet the Women Worried About #MeToo

Postby klonk on Wed Dec 20, 2017 4:25 am

RobP3 wrote:
Ian C. Kuzushi wrote:And my point is that, while there may be some very small amount of that, it's blown out of proportion and the motives behind that are highly suspect.



This.

Some pesky figures again.

"Research for the Home Office suggests that only 4 per cent of cases of sexual violence reported to the UK police are found or suspected to be false. Studies carried out in Europe and in the US indicate rates of between 2 per cent and 6 per cent."

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/false-sexual-violence-assault-rape-allegations-truth-rare-international-day-for-the-elimination-of-a8077876.html


But this is purely non sequitur when placed over against accusations that do not rise to the level of sexual violence as in rape, but are in the vaguer realm of harassment. Here there is much room to claim (with presumption of guilt not innocence) that something was "inappropriate." Much of the OP article speaks to that concern; why don't you?
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Re: Meet the Women Worried About #MeToo

Postby RobP3 on Wed Dec 20, 2017 5:40 am

Because nothing exists in isolation and the more a pendulum swings one way, the more it will go back the other.
So balance your fear of being falsely accused of harassment with everything that has gone before. Personally, in 30+ years of teaching and working with women (and men!) I've never felt that being falsely accused of harassment was an issue. OTOH I've seen and experienced low level harassment (and worse), male and female, and the various ways it was resolved or ignored. Perhaps we have a different perspective in the UK.
Last edited by RobP3 on Wed Dec 20, 2017 5:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Meet the Women Worried About #MeToo

Postby Steve James on Wed Dec 20, 2017 6:06 am

Aw, nobody should be ashamed of pussy grabbing. Maga.
I love to hear men whine about what women might do to them. Being scared of women is a good thing.
"Against Darwin"??? Any citation for his position on Sexual harassment?
Of course harassment is not rape. Then again, I haven't seen one of the accused put in jail.
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