UK Ambassador Cable Says 10K killed at Tiananmen

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UK Ambassador Cable Says 10K killed at Tiananmen

Postby Michael on Sun Dec 24, 2017 6:29 am

At least 10,000 people died in Tiananmen Square massacre, secret British cable from the time alleged

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/tiananmen-square-massacre-death-toll-secret-cable-british-ambassador-1989-alan-donald-a8126461.html
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Re: UK Ambassador Cable Says 10K killed at Tiananmen

Postby Michael on Sun Dec 24, 2017 6:35 am

This massacre has been successfully covered up by the CCP on the mainland. The generation born in the 80's generally don't believe it happened and will often experience cognitive dissonance when presented with any solid info. Younger generations know nothing about it and the CCP "education" program successfully instills such extreme apathy—basically hatred—of history and politics in general that those born in 90's and later are often averse to these topics and couldn't care less. In fact, they have a list of reflexive responses to excuse any wrongdoing by the govt.

On the pragmatic side, there's not a thing any of them could do about their govt as long as it has international financial support from the word's multi-national corporations, so maybe ignorance is bliss.
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Re: UK Ambassador Cable Says 10K killed at Tiananmen

Postby yeniseri on Sun Dec 24, 2017 8:52 am

Most of the people know which side of the bread is buttered but they have to reconcile that with bad behaviour thy exhibit when aroused by patriotic nationalism but never the twain shall meet.
Anyone who even studied about the origin of the Tianamen Square Incident will realize that there were actually 2 camps involved i.e part of the beginnings of those Chinese who supported (under the revolutionary banner) the welcoming of foreign students (usually from Africa) and those who thought that the 'black devils' should not be given free education at the expense of Chinese. Riots ensued and this spread to what we saw as a lone individual confronting the ubiquitious tank as if defying some known attribute of reason above the ignorance of the thunder of ignorance.........

Being the 'white devil' is always better than being the 'black devil' (the dark skinned foreigners ;D ) who are claimed (the latter) to be stealing resources (educational capital) and depriving education fron the lumpenprototariat ??? So much for the principles of socialst postures on equity (all are equally poor ;D ). Jus' sayin'
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Re: UK Ambassador Cable Says 10K killed at Tiananmen

Postby .Q. on Sun Dec 24, 2017 7:00 pm

While I believe anything is possible and no way in hell China's government didn't try to hide info on this, it still sounds a bit far fetched w/o solid evidence. I mean even if the army is 'primitive' they're not like Aztecs. I imagine it's still pretty hard to massacre a whole bunch of your own unarmed countrymen just because you have 'orders'. Military is all about brain washing, but to get to that level is a bit hard to believe.
I've never heard about African students getting education starting the Tiananmen riot. That's kind of interesting. I have no doubt there would be racial tension, but for it to turn into the Tiannanmen incident seems surprising.
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Re: UK Ambassador Cable Says 10K killed at Tiananmen

Postby Michael on Sun Dec 24, 2017 7:41 pm

It sounds unbelievable until you begin looking into it.

There were African students in Nanjing who were being attacked by Chinese students and riots broke out because the Chinese authorities defended the Africans/international students. There were also reform demonstrations going on in many cities around the country.
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Re: UK Ambassador Cable Says 10K killed at Tiananmen

Postby .Q. on Sun Dec 24, 2017 7:57 pm

Michael wrote:It sounds unbelievable until you begin looking into it.

There were African students in Nanjing who were being attacked by Chinese students and riots broke out because the Chinese authorities defended the Africans/international students. There were also reform demonstrations going on in many cities around the country.

That there's a riot when some other race is introduced in sufficient quantity is not what sounds unbelievable. Claims of random Africans being disappeared is also not surprising. Actual Chinese citizens are disappeared pretty often so I would be surprised if that doesn't happen to them. I'm surprised by the claim of scale and that it led to the Tiananmen Square incident. That part sounds like just taking some existing facts and trying to extrapolate the big picture. It's not that something like that can't happen, just that there's a good chance it's 'unlikely'. That's why there's a saying that extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. Anyone can claim they've won the lottery and it definitely is possible, you just need solid proof of that because the odds are VERY slim.
Hell, someone I trust who married a woman from China told me the massacre happened because students were literally killing the soldiers. I did not just take his word for it either since he got his info second hand. I also count that as 'possible but probably unlikely'.
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Re: UK Ambassador Cable Says 10K killed at Tiananmen

Postby Trick on Sun Dec 24, 2017 9:43 pm

10000 more sounds as an hefty figure, maybe that's how it's supposed to sound as.......I don't know about African students in Beijing in the 80's but American there was. When I was there the year before (88) everything seemed "quiet and normal", but many people seemed very interested about the USA and its "culture". The very first KFC had just opened in China/Beijing (it was located just south of the Tainmen Square) daily there where very long queues to that establishment to get a taste of it.......Here's a theory,- foreign powers worked to break down and dethrone the Chinese government doing so by playing on the "American dream" and igniting fires among the Beijing student community.......Foreign powers seem to ever since they sat foot on Chinese soil have tried to take control over this big nation whatever government has been in power, and I believe it continues up to this very day and will go on. Chinese are not afraid to learn about and experience foreign cultures, but as I have seen living in China the Chinese people are a proud people they don't look themselves down towards other cultures, they will not let foreign powers to dictate them......
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Re: UK Ambassador Cable Says 10K killed at Tiananmen

Postby wayne hansen on Sun Dec 24, 2017 11:17 pm

I had mates at the Beijing Wu shu academy at the time
I'm sure if this was true they would have known it and mentioned it.
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Re: UK Ambassador Cable Says 10K killed at Tiananmen

Postby oragami_itto on Mon Dec 25, 2017 5:15 am

How do you feel about the flat Earth?
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Re: UK Ambassador Cable Says 10K killed at Tiananmen

Postby wayne hansen on Wed Dec 27, 2017 6:32 pm

I think the flat earth allows you to appreciate yin/yang within the body
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Re: UK Ambassador Cable Says 10K killed at Tiananmen

Postby Finny on Wed Dec 27, 2017 8:16 pm

Yeah - had a gf from nanjing a couple years ago. When I mentioned Tiananmen square, gave me a wtf look, then when i explained, waved it away with a 'oh yeah, that...'
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Re: UK Ambassador Cable Says 10K killed at Tiananmen

Postby everything on Wed Dec 27, 2017 8:41 pm

June of 89 I was about to head over there for a summer abroad. I wonder how anyone can establish whether an estimate had credibility. It seems impossible now. In a history book you might write that most estimates are around 3000. Some other estimates went as high as 10,000. Any way you look at it, it was a horrific tragedy and the cover-up / re-writing of history is nearly as horrific, and more so in certain ways.
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Re: UK Ambassador Cable Says 10K killed at Tiananmen

Postby kenneth fish on Wed Dec 27, 2017 9:49 pm





A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything.
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Re: UK Ambassador Cable Says 10K killed at Tiananmen

Postby Interloper on Wed Dec 27, 2017 9:57 pm

I was working as the PR manager for an educational travel organization, in 1989, that had groups of participants in China, AT Tienanmin Square during the protests. They were staying in a hotel nearby. Many of them wrote about the experience of witnessing the protests and how they were ushered to their hotels when things started getting dangerous, but quite a few watched a lot of the events unfold, and were in the square throughout the week before and after. I think that if 10,000 people were massacred, it would have been hard to hide it from people staying very close to the square. Some of our participants wrote that their hotel was actually used as an infirmary for people who were injured in the protests, and while things were chaotic, it was nothing like the bloodbath that 10,000 would have precipitated.
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Re: UK Ambassador Cable Says 10K killed at Tiananmen

Postby kenneth fish on Wed Dec 27, 2017 10:00 pm

The protests and resulting slaughter took place not only in Beijing, but also in Chengdu, Changsha and several other smaller cities which unfortunately did not have many foreign news correspondents present. Bear in mind that this was also pre-internet - the footage of the event taken by locals had to be smuggled out. To suggest that the event did not happen, or was of lesser magnitude, is absurd and shows a lack of knowledge of the events before and after the June 4th massacre. There are plenty of corroborating sources - even the local papers in China had a wealth of information (this was in some ways a "Chinese Spring" with relative freedom of movement and speech). Chinese party internal documents (which were smuggled out of China and widely published) support the assertion of death tolls in the thousands.
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