UK Ambassador Cable Says 10K killed at Tiananmen

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Re: UK Ambassador Cable Says 10K killed at Tiananmen

Postby grzegorz on Thu Jan 25, 2018 9:57 am

Least corrupt?

LOL! Where are you getting your news from?

You accused China of taking money from the multi-nationals but here multi-nationals run everything and yes even the news. The news here isn't liberal or conservative it is a commodity repackaged and sold for money by the multi-nationals.

This country sucks and I don't blame you for leaving but definitely not going to sit still when someone criticizes China and praises the US.

Sure the US is better than Putin's Russia where critics and journalists can shot dead on the street.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nati ... story.html

And you have more rights than in China.

But we can't deny that here they will come after your right to vote, strip you of your pension and healthcare, change the banking laws to legally take your house and then tell you the Mexican or Muslim is your real enemy.

Yeah what a country...the United Shates...
Last edited by grzegorz on Thu Jan 25, 2018 10:00 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: UK Ambassador Cable Says 10K killed at Tiananmen

Postby Michael on Thu Jan 25, 2018 10:07 am

Fair enough, Greg, and of course I know what you're talking about with the news, etc.

Just want to be clear that I am living overseas temporarily and this had nothing to do with politics or corruption anywhere, neither here nor there, and has nothing to do with how long until I return.

Do you think there's somewhere better and less corrupt than the USA, or just somewhere better to live?
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Re: UK Ambassador Cable Says 10K killed at Tiananmen

Postby grzegorz on Thu Jan 25, 2018 10:08 am

Steve James wrote:Depends on what you mean by corrupt. The dictionary says:

cor·rupt
adjective

1. having or showing a willingness to act dishonestly in return for money or personal gain.
"unscrupulous logging companies assisted by corrupt officials"
synonyms: dishonest, unscrupulous, dishonorable, unprincipled, unethical, amoral, untrustworthy, venal, underhanded, double-dealing, fraudulent, bribable, criminal, illegal, unlawful, nefarious;

2. (of a text or a computer database or program) made unreliable by errors or alterations.

verb
1. cause to act dishonestly in return for money or personal gain.
"there is a continuing fear of firms corrupting politicians in the search for contracts"

2. change or debase by making errors or unintentional alterations.
"Epicurus's teachings have since been much corrupted"
synonyms: alter, tamper with, interfere with, bastardize, debase, adulterate
"the apostolic writings had been corrupted"


But, ya see, "America" was more than a country; it was an ideal. China has no ideal except to help China. That's greed, and that's almost normal. "America first" is no different. Afa corruption of ideals, America stands without a peer. Once upon a time, the world looked up and to America because of its ideals.

Are American politicians less greedy, self-interested, or ready to throw their constituents (i.e., citizens) under the bus for personal gain? :) Is political corruption worse in China? I dunno, but I have no reason to believe that people in the US are no less corrupt or criminal.

I also think that people come here because it's easier to be criminal, and I'm not talking about Latin Americans, either. I don't think it's as easy to go to China and start a criminal organization. That doesn't make China better. Here, you can buy whatever you want, even influence in politics, if you have the cash. Do Chinese politicians get "political contributions" from businesses? American politicians do? Are corporations considered "individuals" in China?

Naw, the US has been pretending to be righteous and exceptional. When it's always been corrupt and ordinary. There definitely are more corrupt countries, but they're corrupt in their own way. NKorea prints counterfeit US bills (supernotes). Some would argue that Russia is a kleptocracy, but that's not a problem -as long as one goes along with the program.

And, let's not talk about the corruption of "Christianity." I.e., using it to justify crimes that would disgrace a nation of savages. Anyway, like I said, it depends on your definition of corrupt.


Exactly!

The difference here is that the multi-nationals write and make the laws so they can take your house and keep it all legal.
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Re: UK Ambassador Cable Says 10K killed at Tiananmen

Postby grzegorz on Thu Jan 25, 2018 10:19 am

Michael wrote:Fair enough, Greg, and of course I know what you're talking about with the news, etc.

Just want to be clear that I am living overseas temporarily and this had nothing to do with politics or corruption anywhere, neither here nor there, and has nothing to do with how long until I return.

Do you think there's somewhere better and less corrupt than the USA, or just somewhere better to live?


As an American I would never say Canada but I do think the EU has it good with their vacations, pensions and universal healthcare. Also if it were not for the US they probably would stay out of wars too.

Personally I would like to retire to Costa Rica but so many Americans and Canadians are moving there that the cost of living has sky rocketed.

Yeah, in China I became angry and frustrated at all the corruption and remembering seeing a lady taken off of the street by an unmarked car after being involved in a strike at a local hospital. I know how ugly things can get there and here we do have trials and judges which helps. Also although the police here use deadly force probably more often than some third world countries at most are not looking for a bribe. So I hear you loud and clear. I could not stay in China for the long run although perhaps I could have stayed in Taiwan.

But here corporations are people and money is speech and the rest of us are becoming the forgotten man.

What do you think? I bet Australia is pretty nice.
Last edited by grzegorz on Thu Jan 25, 2018 2:01 pm, edited 5 times in total.
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Re: UK Ambassador Cable Says 10K killed at Tiananmen

Postby Michael on Thu Jan 25, 2018 10:27 am

Yeah, my uncle wanted to retire to Costa Rica more than 15 years ago and it was already setting up land-owning requirements and making it too expensive.

Also if it were not for the US they probably would stay out of wars too.

I hadda say sth. here, you know, about those wars that USA started in Europe in 1914 and 1939 ;)
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Re: UK Ambassador Cable Says 10K killed at Tiananmen

Postby Bao on Thu Jan 25, 2018 12:06 pm

But, ya see, "America" was more than a country; it was an ideal. China has no ideal except to help China. That's greed, and that's almost normal. "America first" is no different. Afa corruption of ideals, America stands without a peer. Once upon a time, the world looked up and to America because of its ideals.


The US: more than 14% poverty. More poverty than 1959.
China: Less than 7%. In 1980, the poverty rate was 80%.

Trump’s short time goal: Building a wall and let Mexico pay for it.
Xi Jingping’s short time goal: Completely get rid of poverty in the year 2020.

What Trump has done the last year to help the country: Play golf, watch TV and tweet.
What Xi Jingping has done the last year to help the country: Personally visited every single high poverty area and demanded the local leaders and business men to develop the areas. (The local leaders are not allowed to advance as long as the area still has poverty. If the area stays poor, they stay poor)
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Re: UK Ambassador Cable Says 10K killed at Tiananmen

Postby grzegorz on Thu Jan 25, 2018 2:15 pm

Michael wrote:Yeah, my uncle wanted to retire to Costa Rica more than 15 years ago and it was already setting up land-owning requirements and making it too expensive.

Also if it were not for the US they probably would stay out of wars too.

I hadda say sth. here, you know, about those wars that USA started in Europe in 1914 and 1939 ;)


That is the difference. Europe learned from those wars that war is the last option and the most evil decision a politician can make. You do realize that the Great war was over a century ago and the second one approaching 75 years ago, right?

The problem here is with the right lawyers, right polificians and right money you can get away with anything. From getting doctors to prescribe prescription opiods, illegally gerry mandering states so one party stays in power to buying peeled garlic from Chinese prisoners and selling it at Costco for next to nothing putting all the other garlic farmers out of business.

http://gilroydispatch.com/2018/01/11/ch ... flix-show/

Hopefully something changes and your uncle can get in. Universal healthcare, free universities with over ninety percent of the population getting degrees, no military to speak of, 85 degrees Fahrenheit year round, everything running on green energy and the waves dude! Sounds like paradise.
Last edited by grzegorz on Thu Jan 25, 2018 2:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: UK Ambassador Cable Says 10K killed at Tiananmen

Postby Michael on Thu Jan 25, 2018 5:49 pm

Right, Bao. China has 7% poverty ::) and Xi Jinping personally visited every high poverty rate place in the country and local leaders will be trusted to accurately report the improvements in the poverty rate after being told they can't advance if the numbers don't change. Sounds like the Great Leap Forward when local leaders starved millions to death in order to be able to tell Mao the grain supplies were at the artificially prescribed levels he'd dreamed up from Beijing, so while his own people were obviously dropping like flies, he was selling grain to the USSR....to help his country.

When China Wants Better Air Readings, Cotton Does the Trick

The scheme was simple: Stuff cotton into air-monitoring equipment so that the air being read would be filtered and seem cleaner.

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/29/world/asia/china-xian-air-pollution-data.html
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Re: UK Ambassador Cable Says 10K killed at Tiananmen

Postby grzegorz on Thu Jan 25, 2018 6:15 pm

A beer cracks open.
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Re: UK Ambassador Cable Says 10K killed at Tiananmen

Postby Trick on Fri Jan 26, 2018 2:45 am

Michael wrote:Right, Bao. China has 7% poverty ::) and Xi Jinping personally visited every high poverty rate place in the country and local leaders will be trusted to accurately report the improvements in the poverty rate after being told they can't advance if the numbers don't change. Sounds like the Great Leap Forward when local leaders starved millions to death in order to be able to tell Mao the grain supplies were at the artificially prescribed levels he'd dreamed up from Beijing, so while his own people were obviously dropping like flies, he was selling grain to the USSR....to help his country.

When China Wants Better Air Readings, Cotton Does the Trick

The scheme was simple: Stuff cotton into air-monitoring equipment so that the air being read would be filtered and seem cleaner.

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/29/world/asia/china-xian-air-pollution-data.html

Now I don't know how about US and Trump, but if I take Swedish politicians and when on very rare occasions visit "lesser fortunate" areas in the kingdom usually the population that gather up there seem not very exited some almost to the point that they want them to leave "their" area as quick as they came there...and I'm sure the politician "visiting" want that too....But whenever I see on CCTV a leading Chinese politician visiting rural areas the citizens there seem exited and welcoming, now that could of course be all a well staged performance just to look good on TV..but I don't get that feeling it seem genuine........About your or NY-times Cotton story, it seem just pulled right out from thin air. We know that "western" media are on a anti China agenda a little now and then.
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Re: UK Ambassador Cable Says 10K killed at Tiananmen

Postby Bao on Fri Jan 26, 2018 2:55 am

Michael wrote: Sounds like the Great Leap Forward when local leaders starved millions to death in order to be able to tell Mao the grain supplies were at the artificially prescribed levels he'd dreamed up from Beijing, so while his own people were obviously dropping like flies, he was selling grain to the USSR....to help his country.


How does it sound like the great leap? The fact is that China continues to develop rapidly and poverty continues to drop rapidly. How? Because they have set certain goals and work towards them. China focus on China and to develop the country to make life better for everyone. The US could also focus on developing the US and improve life for people. Instead they continue to argue with other countries and create conflicts just to sell their weapons. Who or how many are killed, the US government doesn’t give a shit about.

But sure, it’s better to dwell in history. Maybe studying the great leap or Tiananmen incident will keep people from worrying about the real threat to world peace? :P
Last edited by Bao on Fri Jan 26, 2018 2:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: UK Ambassador Cable Says 10K killed at Tiananmen

Postby Bao on Fri Jan 26, 2018 3:00 am

Trick wrote:Now I don't know how about US and Trump, but if I take Swedish politicians and when on very rare occasions visit "lesser fortunate" areas in the kingdom usually the population that gather up there seem not very exited some almost to the point that they want them to leave "their" area as quick as they came there...and I'm sure the politician "visiting" want that too....


Swedish politics has become a joke. We have a solid bureaucratic system that keeps it all up. But the politicians have no goals and no visions. They keep on trying to redistribute money, but they don’t know ideas on how to make the country grow. It’s going down and continue to go down.
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