Beatdown

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Beatdown

Postby KEND on Wed Jan 17, 2018 1:51 pm

WATCH: Kamala Harris accuses DHS chief Kirstjen Nielsen of racism ...
https://www.rawstory.com/.../watch-kama ... ielsen-o...
1 day ago - Sen. Kamala Harris (D-CA) sparred with Homeland Security secretary Kirstjen Nielsen over the president's racist remarks — and the administration official's apparent support for those views. Nielson said earlier Tuesday during testimony before the Senate Judiciary Committee that the president was simply

WOW That was some beatdown. Trump has promoted so many incompetent people this will probably be repeated. Harris's passion was amazing...
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Re: Beatdown

Postby windwalker on Wed Jan 17, 2018 4:34 pm

Why do you feel it was a beat down what points did he make that you felt made it so. Why do you feel she was incompetent.
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Re: Beatdown

Postby Bill on Wed Jan 17, 2018 5:34 pm

I did not hear Trump say anything racist. Haiti isn't a race, it's a country. A poor country that is very badly run by politicians who enrich themselves at the expense of the people. There is nothing thing racist about criticizing it.
Last week he was crazy, this week he's racist, next week my Democrats will be on to another false attack once the racist charge goes away. Repeat, repeat, repeat.
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Re: Beatdown

Postby Steve James on Wed Jan 17, 2018 5:36 pm

Kamala is a woman, fwiw. But, afa competence, part of her point was that the candidate did not mention the threat of white supremacist groups when talking about threats to "homeland security." Harris saw that as a serious omission, given other comments the candidate had made.

Well, I couldn't say that she was qualified or not to run the agency. I saw the exchange, and it's easy to see that the candidate is dishonest. If "Kirstjen Nielsen" really doesn't know that Norway is a predominantly "White" country, she's either dull as a brick or being dishonest. If dull, then she's incompetent. If dishonest, she shouldn't be confirmed. There'd be no problem in answering "Sure, Norway is a white country."

Of course, the reason for the lack of honesty was the fact that she was defending what the president supposedly said at a meeting on immigration. I.e., that the country needed more Norwegians to emigrate, rather than people from "shit hole" countries. I wasn't there, but I don't think the report is wrong or that anyone made up the story. In fact, I think that lots of people agree that almost anywhere not European is a shit hole.

Well, fleeing from oppressive regimes, crime, poverty, violence, in shit hole countries is exactly why Europeans came to the Americas, in general. And, the US was the only country that actually encouraged Europe's "tired, poor, hungry masses yearning to breathe free." Shucks, Germans and Italian immigrants came from shitholes almost as bad as London in the 19th and 20 century. That includes Trump's grandpa.

Okay, then there's the question of wanting immigrants who are willing to work hard. Give me a break. Norwegian immigrants would be expected to work as hard as Mexican or Salvadoran immigrants. :) Well, for one thing, Norwegians aren't immigrating to the US because to them, the US is a comparative shit hole. I'm not talking about the inner cities, either. I'm talking the suburbs. Immigrating here means giving up health care, free education, child care, family leave, guaranteed vacation, clean water, fresh food, and a higher standard of living overall. That's why more Americans emigrate to Norway than the other way around.

At any rate, just because you come from a shit hole --like 1920s Germany-- you can still make something of yourself in "America." They used to call it American Exceptionalism, and "only in America." Once upon a time, coming from a shit hole didn't mean you were a shit head.
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Re: Beatdown

Postby Steve James on Wed Jan 17, 2018 5:46 pm

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Re: Beatdown

Postby Steve James on Wed Jan 17, 2018 6:00 pm

There is nothing thing racist about criticizing it.


He can criticize Haiti as much as Chicago. However, as you point out, Haiti is a country. It can't be racist or lazy or unintelligent. And, afa corruption, you can't say that Haitian politicians are more corrupt than here.

Besides, afa Trump being a racist, it is meaningless to question. His supporters wouldn't care if he came out and admitted it. They'll just support him more. Frankly, he is just an average guy with fairly common views. The only thing that matters is when he promotes or advocates policies that differentiate among the citizens he's "sworn" to serve.
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Re: Beatdown

Postby windwalker on Wed Jan 17, 2018 6:21 pm

Steve James wrote: The only thing that matters is when he promotes or advocates policies that differentiate among the citizens he's "sworn" to serve.


Has he done this.
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Re: Beatdown

Postby windwalker on Wed Jan 17, 2018 6:23 pm

Steve James wrote:Kamala is a woman, fwiw. But, afa competence, part of her point was that the candidate did not mention the threat of white supremacist groups when talking about threats to "homeland security." Harris saw that as a serious omission, given other comments the candidate had made.

Well, I couldn't say that she was qualified or not to run the agency. I saw the exchange, and it's easy to see that the candidate is dishonest. If "Kirstjen Nielsen" really doesn't know that Norway is a predominantly "White" country, she's either dull as a brick or being dishonest. If dull, then she's incompetent. If dishonest, she shouldn't be confirmed. There'd be no problem in answering "Sure, Norway is a white country."

Of course, the reason for the lack of honesty was the fact that she was defending what the president supposedly said at a meeting on immigration. I.e., that the country needed more Norwegians to emigrate, rather than people from "shit hole" countries. I wasn't there, but I don't think the report is wrong or that anyone made up the story. In fact, I think that lots of people agree that almost anywhere not European is a shit hole.

Well, fleeing from oppressive regimes, crime, poverty, violence, in shit hole countries is exactly why Europeans came to the Americas, in general. And, the US was the only country that actually encouraged Europe's "tired, poor, hungry masses yearning to breathe free." Shucks, Germans and Italian immigrants came from shitholes almost as bad as London in the 19th and 20 century. That includes Trump's grandpa.

Okay, then there's the question of wanting immigrants who are willing to work hard. Give me a break. Norwegian immigrants would be expected to work as hard as Mexican or Salvadoran immigrants. :) Well, for one thing, Norwegians aren't immigrating to the US because to them, the US is a comparative shit hole. I'm not talking about the inner cities, either. I'm talking the suburbs. Immigrating here means giving up health care, free education, child care, family leave, guaranteed vacation, clean water, fresh food, and a higher standard of living overall. That's why more Americans emigrate to Norway than the other way around.

At any rate, just because you come from a shit hole --like 1920s Germany-- you can still make something of yourself in "America." They used to call it American Exceptionalism, and "only in America." Once upon a time, coming from a shit hole didn't mean you were a shit head.


You seem to assume a lot about what others know, or do not know.
Why again aren't the Norwegians not immigrating to the US?
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Re: Beatdown

Postby Steve James on Wed Jan 17, 2018 6:56 pm

You seem to assume a lot about what others know, or do not know.


I would ask if you've ever been to Norway. But, I'll bet you know it wasn't an Asian or African country.


Why again aren't the Norwegians not immigrating to the US?


It's better in Norway. Now ask me why I don't go to Trondheim. :)

Quality of Life Index (Top Ten) https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2016/07/ ... ty-of-life

T-10. New Zealand — 88.45.
New Zealand's tourist board calls it "the youngest country in the world," and it is certainly one of the most beautiful. "Opportunity" is where it scores really high, as a low population means jobs are in abundance.

T-10. Iceland — 88.45.
Speaking of beautiful countries, Iceland scores very well in social progress, particularly in the "basic human needs" index and GDP per capita. Its football team has proven itself a force to be reckoned with too.

9. United Kingdom — 88.58.
The NHS is big part of the UK's high placing, with "basic medical care" scoring almost 100% on the report. Education scores almost as highly, with free access to quality schools.

8. Netherlands — 88.65.
The Netherlands is famously one of the most tolerant countries in the world, so its position in the top ten should be no surprise. It is one of the highest-scoring countries on "personal freedom and choice."

7. Norway — 88.70.
Get used to seeing Scandinavian nations in the top ten. Norway is big on "nutrition and basic medical care," and its "access to basic knowledge" is strong too. Many have said the Norway model is one to follow for a non-EU UK.

6. Sweden — 88.80.
"Water and sanitation" may be taken for granted in developed economies, but it is not enjoyed everywhere. Luckily it is an area Sweden nails, scoring 99.77. The country also picks up high scores in "nutrition" and "personal rights."

5. Switzerland — 88.87.
Switzerland may have some of the most expensive cities in the world to live in, but its citizens get value for money. According to the Social Progress Report, "medical", "nutritional" and "access to basic knowledge" is where the country shines.

4. Australia — 89.13.
There is a good reason so many people want to start a new life "down under." Austrailia has fantastic education, job opportunities and a strong sense of personal freedom. Its "tolerance and inclusion" score could be higher though.

3. Denmark — 89.39.
Denmark has one of the best social mobility and income equality rates in the world, so no surprise it makes it into the top three on this list. "Basic human needs" is where the country scores particularly highly, though its "health and wellness" stats such as life expectancy could be higher.

2. Canada — 89.49.
For such a huge nation, Canada only has 35 million citizens, and they are some of the best looked after in the world. Canada's healthcare is what stands it above the rest. Education and opportunity in the country are also impressively strong.

1. Finland — 90.09.
Everyone says Scandinavian nations have the highest standard of living, and now Finland has made it official. It scores highly on almost every index on the report, from basic needs, foundations of wellbeing and personal freedoms. If you move there just make sure to bring warm coat — temperatures can reach minus 50 celsius​ in the winter!


It isn't surprising that immigration rates of people from the above countries is low. Nowadays, that is.
Last edited by Steve James on Wed Jan 17, 2018 7:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Beatdown

Postby windwalker on Wed Jan 17, 2018 7:11 pm

Steve James wrote:
You seem to assume a lot about what others know, or do not know.


I would ask if you've ever been to Norway. But, I'll bet you know it wasn't an Asian or African country.


Why again aren't the Norwegians not immigrating to the US?


It's better in Norway. Now ask me why I don't go to Trondheim. :)


"it wasn't an Asian or African country."

Its kind of pointless but so easy

"President Trump Holds Press Conference With Prime Minister Of Norway"

check the dates and understand why he might have used that country as opposed to others.
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Re: Beatdown

Postby Steve James on Wed Jan 17, 2018 8:35 pm

So, she just couldn't answer the question straight? Right, because she was trying to defend, or not to offend. To say "I don't know" is just laughable. It's what they call a tell.

And, really, it wasn't what he said about Norway or when. It's that productive people come from shit hole countries, just like his family did. Iinm, at the immigration meeting where the shit hole remark was uttered, the Norwegian ambassador was not there. Apparently, Trump asked why we had quotas for Haitians, and others from "shit hole" countries. Instead, he asked why we didn't have more Norwegians --or something to that effect. That's why the "White" senator asked the candidate "Is Norway a predominantly White country?"

The prez had also said something about Haitians -not the Haitian government- suggesting they were less than hard-working. In fact, they're overachievers.

I'm curious. How many people around here are immigrants or the children of immigrants?
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Re: Beatdown

Postby Ian C. Kuzushi on Wed Jan 17, 2018 8:57 pm

Bill wrote:I did not hear Trump say anything racist. Haiti isn't a race, it's a country. A poor country that is very badly run by politicians who enrich themselves at the expense of the people. There is nothing thing racist about criticizing it.
Last week he was crazy, this week he's racist, next week my Democrats will be on to another false attack once the racist charge goes away. Repeat, repeat, repeat.


This post illustrates a rather startling willingness to talk about things even from a place of complete ignorance. Haiti is not just some country, it was founded as the most successful slave revolt in history and therefore is a symbol, not just of resistance to oppressive racism, but also of what happens when the "help" gets uppity. Haiti's economic woes have a long history and it started with oppressive economic policies by European countries and the US that were a direct response to the perceived threat of an independent black ruled country. Of course, not every criticism about Haiti is necessarily about race. But, given the historical context and Trump's history (from housing discrimination to the Central Park Five and so on--it's very well documented), it was clearly a racist remark. If it wasn't, why is he denying saying it now?
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Re: Beatdown

Postby Steve James on Wed Jan 17, 2018 9:10 pm

Expecting Trump, or Americans in general, to know the history of Haiti -of the Haitians who fought in our Revolutionary War, of the fact that the US doubled in size because Napoleon lost the Haitian Revolution, or that Haiti agreed to pay France back for the loss of its plantations, of the US invasion from 1915 to 1934, etc., is way too much to ask.

The same is true of Florida history. Aw, it seems to more likely that there'd be a law preventing the teaching of that history. Kids may be taught about the Battle of Yorktown, but only specialists will know of the crucial Battle of Pensacola that preceded it.
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Re: Beatdown

Postby Ian C. Kuzushi on Wed Jan 17, 2018 9:19 pm

Well, now everyone who reads this post should have some inkling. :)

But, of course I don't expect Trump to know much of anything. But, being completely ignorant of history and other countries is more likely to make one xenophobic, not less (IME). I just found out that Trump has been fibbing all along about his education and that he never really went to Wharton for a professional degree. What a huckster.

At any rate, I learned about the Haitian revolution in grade school and city college. We also taught it in world history and the history of war in the modern world at my last university. So, some people should have some idea about it. As you point out, it's a rather important part of our history, even if it's not pretty.
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Re: Beatdown

Postby Trick on Wed Jan 17, 2018 10:43 pm

Making and selling Trump Voodo-dolls could be a good business
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