dan tian

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Re: dan tian

Postby Bao on Sun Feb 04, 2018 3:42 am

Trick wrote:.isn't there also some guys doing "daoist-yoga" too, I'm sure there is nothing about that in those classical text....


What is originally called daoist yoga is daoyin: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tao_yin

people just invent as they go along.


I don’t mind people inventing things and make their own interpretations as long as they are honest and open about it. But when you lie and lie and use lies to fool people and use all kinds of frauds and mind tricks to take their money, then it’s not ok.
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Re: dan tian

Postby windwalker on Sun Feb 04, 2018 4:29 am

Trick wrote:Not well versed at all in classical texts of Daoism but as I recall as Bao says there is nothing written about Dantian and even lesser so on Taiji-poles and chakras....isn't there also some guys doing "daoist-yoga" too, I'm sure there is nothing about that in those classical text....people just invent as they go along.



Which is not saying much all things being discussed were invented by "people"

Its what one can do or does with the information that counts.

Both you and Bao, seem to be conflating analogies that the author drew

Although the chakra systems are more significant in the Buddhist and Yogic traditions, both of these spiritual disciplines commonly refer to the Three Dantians areas in their energetic practice. According to ancient Buddhist and Yogic traditions, these three areas contain the three psychic knots or "Granthi" where an individual's energy and spiritual consciousness interact and manifest in particular ways.


In Medical Chi Kung practice and Daoist inner alchemy, the Earth energy is gathered in the Lower Dantian and is associated with heat. Chi (Qi) is closely connected with the atmospheric energy (a blend of Heaven and Earth energy), is gathered into the Middle Dantian and is associated with vibration. Shen (Spirit) is the most insubstantial, and therefore, the most Yang of the three. It corresponds with Heaven Chi (Qi), is gathered in the Upper Dantian, and is associated with light. The Three Dantians are connected to each other through the Taiji Pole. The Taiji Pole acts as a passageway for communication between the Three Dantians and as a highway for the movement of the various life-force energies

http://www.ichikung.com/html/dantians.php

not a scholar but do find it interesting, whether I agree with his conclusions or not...

My friends writing on the subject.
http://www.hsvtaichi.com/DanTianAndChannels.pdf

his web site....http://www.hsvtaichi.com/

talks about the taiji pole connections

Image


talks about inner and outer alignments

Image


What one can do with the information is what counts.
Last edited by windwalker on Sun Feb 04, 2018 5:39 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: dan tian

Postby HotSoup on Sun Feb 04, 2018 6:07 am

Bao wrote:... What he calls the dantian is not the dantian. He says that the lower abdomen is equal to the dantian.


I hear how Chinese call the lower abdomen "Dan Tian", when explaining physical movements, all the time. I don't really think they refer to a mystical energetic "field" described in the Taoist alchemical texts, it's just the lower abdomen. And it is completely fine to call a whole lot of different things the same word, this is how the Chinese language works in many cases. You need context to assign the right meaning to the word.
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Re: dan tian

Postby Trick on Sun Feb 04, 2018 8:04 am

windwalker wrote:Which is not saying much all things being discussed were invented by "people"

Which is what i'm saying, but should maybe add "for various reasos"
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Re: dan tian

Postby Steve James on Sun Feb 04, 2018 8:21 am

Field.
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Re: dan tian

Postby Trick on Sun Feb 04, 2018 8:24 am

windwalker wrote:What one can do with the information is what counts.

Absolutely, hopefully the seeker don't have to go around to study all the martial arts and spiritual paths in the world in the hope for enlightening. - “The further one goes, the less one knows.”
― Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching
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Re: dan tian

Postby Bao on Sun Feb 04, 2018 8:55 am

HotSoup wrote:
Bao wrote:... What he calls the dantian is not the dantian. He says that the lower abdomen is equal to the dantian.


I hear how Chinese call the lower abdomen "Dan Tian", when explaining physical movements, all the time. I don't really think they refer to a mystical energetic "field" described in the Taoist alchemical texts, it's just the lower abdomen. And it is completely fine to call a whole lot of different things the same word, this is how the Chinese language works in many cases. You need context to assign the right meaning to the word.


The context right here is not how people in common use the term. Here the context is someone who calls himself a professor in Medical Qigong, but he explains medical qigong with neidan terminology and then he explain terms in different ways as it suits him. I am ok if people call the lower abdomen dantian in daily use, but if the context is someone writing about TCM or neidan, then they should have some knowledge about the terminology they use. ... If they want to be taken seriously that is....
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Re: dan tian

Postby wiesiek on Mon Feb 05, 2018 2:48 am

wow, DT again?
> tons of theory and mystic scrolls means nothing against 10 grams of the practice... <
just this old shit pops up in my head,
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Re: dan tian

Postby windwalker on Mon Feb 05, 2018 3:17 am

wiesiek wrote:wow, DT again?
> tons of theory and mystic scrolls means nothing against 10 grams of the practice... <
just this old shit pops up in my head,


Sure practice is practice, what is theory or mystic becomes very clear through it.
care to share some thoughts as to what can be done using it, that can not be done with out it?

As was mentioned it's what one can do with the information and what one can not do with out it.

lots of different perspectives. On some theads people mention dantian powered or driven.
Happened to come across the article and felt it highlighted a different perspective in a somewhat functional manor.
Last edited by windwalker on Mon Feb 05, 2018 4:09 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: dan tian

Postby wiesiek on Mon Feb 05, 2018 4:59 am

ok,
by everyday practice with focus on the area you`re accumulating "energy", or use the word > Qi <
this is quite common knowledge,
How I feel this today /over 20 years with such task, 50 years MA total/?
:
for simplicity-
Imagine -- ball tie/mounted,
to the for corners of the square ./it`s cube in reality, but 2D model is easier to translate :)/
Ball represent DT, of c., while corners are hands and feet.
What is most interested in my model ? - ball is not tie on cannabis ropes or even more elastic connections.
They are like steel rods
but
I can switch on "spring" mode "on fly", and independently .
speakin` so,
I`m not able to clearly tell you what I can do with it - in the martial sense, `cause I wasn`t train on the mat quite long time, TJ groups here doesn`t train >close contact< ??? , have to go try Aikido groups or my old Judo friends.
anyway I can move my DT quite freely - vertically, horizontally , rotate it or mix .
Felling of it is simply,- like internal weight shiftings/not very heavy, but material definitely , nothing extraordinary
Now you can use your imagination...
best
W
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Re: dan tian

Postby windwalker on Mon Feb 05, 2018 5:55 am

good post.....

Rather then debating what a dantian is or what ever,
it might more interesting to read about what people feel they can do with it or as
wiesiek, outlined his feelings on it....

thanks to all who shared some thoughts..good reading.

If some feel its not interesting don't post and soon this post will die......
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Re: dan tian

Postby wiesiek on Wed Feb 07, 2018 2:52 am

thx,
to add to "my model" some more martial >Enlightening < ;)

- when I move DT, - ie : locating weight in the point, it is done on the "rods mode " , power generating this way can be called >long power< in the TJ terms, I suppose.
Short power is generating on "springs mode" and I DON`T move the DT,
my body is movin` around the DT.

Don`t know am I clear here,
but
those are my internal impression of the trainings.
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