Some powerful shit

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Re: Some powerful shit

Postby windwalker on Mon Mar 05, 2018 3:23 pm

So yes, let's require a licenses to own and operate a gun.

Also I have yet to see a car attack a high school in the US. But when it happens let's deal with it. How's that for a solution?


Not a car or a high school, but vech have been used before.

One of the issues in this case was that FBI and local protocols were not followed.
Which might have prevented him from acquiring the weapons in the first place.

The first officers on the scene according to some reports were told not to enter the building...Another anomaly
as to why when according to most agencies it is the policy to go in and address the threat, not waite on the outside.

Present laws were not followed. Before adding more laws it might be better to insure that laws in place are followed and
address why they were not.


On October 31, 2017, a person drove a rented pickup truck into cyclists and runners for about one mile (1.6 kilometers) of the Hudson River Park's bike path alongside West Street from Houston Street south to Chambers Street in Lower Manhattan, New York City. The vehicle-ramming attack killed eight people and injured eleven others. After crashing the truck into a school bus, the driver exited, apparently wielding two guns (later found to be a paintball gun and a pellet gun). He was shot in the abdomen by a policeman and arrested.[6

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_New_ ... uck_attack



The laws are different in different states

for example in AL

Alabama
Main article: Gun laws in Alabama
Subject/Law Long guns Handguns Relevant statutes Notes
Permit to purchase required? No No
Firearm registration? No No
Owner license required? No No
Carry permits required? No Yes Alabama is a shall-issue state for concealed carry. However, the issuing county sheriff can suspend or even revoke concealed carry privileges for wanton disregard of the law.[7]

Open carry permitted? Yes Yes

State preemption of local restrictions? Yes Yes

Assault weapon law? No No
NFA weapons restricted? No No
Background checks required for private sales? No No


In CA

California
Main article: Gun laws in California
Subject/Law Long guns Handguns Relevant Statutes Notes
State permit to purchase? Yes Yes
Firearm registration? Yes Yes
Owner license required? No No
Assault weapon law? Yes Yes

Magazine capacity restriction? Yes Yes

Carry permits required? Yes Yes §
Open carry? Partial Partial
State preemption of local restrictions? Yes Yes

Castle doctrine law? Yes Yes
Peaceable journey laws? No No .
Waiting period? Yes Yes


Background checks required for private sales? Yes Yes

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_ ... s_by_state

In the United States, gun laws are found in a number of federal statutes, enforced by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF). The right to keep and bear arms is protected by the Second Amendment to the Constitution,[31] and most state constitutions also guarantee this right. There is some variance across the country as both federal and state laws apply to firearm possession and ownership.




What some want is a national registry, which when asked about most do not favor.

Should proof of ID be required to buy a gun ?
Last edited by windwalker on Mon Mar 05, 2018 3:46 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Some powerful shit

Postby grzegorz on Mon Mar 05, 2018 3:39 pm

On October 31, 2017, a person drove a rented pickup truck into cyclists and runners for about one mile (1.6 kilometers) of the Hudson River Park's bike path alongside West Street from Houston Street south to Chambers Street in Lower Manhattan, New York City. The vehicle-ramming attack killed eight people and injured eleven others. After crashing the truck into a school bus, the driver exited, apparently wielding two guns (later found to be a paintball gun and a pellet gun).


Just imagine how much worse it would have been if a special license were not required for a class A and for a hazmat endorsement.

We have had almost two dozen school shootings in 2018 as opposed to how many death by car school incidents?

If death by car is a concern then we can discuss that too. I personally think we make getting a drivers license too easy.
Last edited by grzegorz on Mon Mar 05, 2018 3:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Some powerful shit

Postby grzegorz on Mon Mar 05, 2018 3:45 pm

And...?

Image


The laws are different in different states

for example in AL

Alabama
Main article: Gun laws in Alabama
Subject/Law Long guns Handguns Relevant statutes Notes
Permit to purchase required? No No
Firearm registration? No No
Owner license required? No No
Carry permits required? No Yes Alabama is a shall-issue state for concealed carry. However, the issuing county sheriff can suspend or even revoke concealed carry privileges for wanton disregard of the law.[7]

Open carry permitted? Yes Yes

State preemption of local restrictions? Yes Yes

Assault weapon law? No No
NFA weapons restricted? No No
Background checks required for private sales? No No


In CA

California
Main article: Gun laws in California
Subject/Law Long guns Handguns Relevant Statutes Notes
State permit to purchase? Yes Yes
Firearm registration? Yes Yes
Owner license required? No No
Assault weapon law? Yes Yes

Magazine capacity restriction? Yes Yes

Carry permits required? Yes Yes §
Open carry? Partial Partial
State preemption of local restrictions? Yes Yes

Castle doctrine law? Yes Yes
Peaceable journey laws? No No .
Waiting period? Yes Yes


Background checks required for private sales? Yes Yes

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_ ... s_by_state

In the United States, gun laws are found in a number of federal statutes, enforced by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF). The right to keep and bear arms is protected by the Second Amendment to the Constitution,[31] and most state constitutions also guarantee this right. There is some variance across the country as both federal and state laws apply to firearm possession and ownership.




What some want is a national registry, which when asked about most do not favor.
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Re: Some powerful shit

Postby windwalker on Mon Mar 05, 2018 3:53 pm

grzegorz wrote:And...?

Image



Depends on the people in the state as to what laws they vote for to enact.
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Re: Some powerful shit

Postby grzegorz on Mon Mar 05, 2018 3:59 pm

Before 2008 no gun law was ever overruled. But with Scalia, the first ever to write about an individual's right, all that has changed.

As you know they are even trying to make it law that another state's permits or lack of permits laws/rules need to be recognized by other states.

Yet if a Californian tried to legally light up in Alabama...hell no!
Last edited by grzegorz on Mon Mar 05, 2018 4:12 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: Some powerful shit

Postby windwalker on Mon Mar 05, 2018 7:34 pm

changing state law from some one who it affected...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=557W_vxLziE


Do not agree with raising the age to buy...a firearm while still being required to register for the military and
being allowed to vote. It's not consistent.
Last edited by windwalker on Mon Mar 05, 2018 8:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Some powerful shit

Postby grzegorz on Mon Mar 05, 2018 11:58 pm

Well as far as that goes I really doubt Trump will do anything. I always said he is a mere entertainer and nothing more, his words are meaningless.
Last edited by grzegorz on Tue Mar 06, 2018 12:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Some powerful shit

Postby windwalker on Tue Mar 06, 2018 4:56 am

A 20-year-old is suing Dick’s Sporting Goods after being refused a Ruger .22 rifle purchase based on his age.
The plaintiff, Tyler Watson, claims he faced “Unlawful Age Discrimination.”

Watson attempted to buy the rifle “on or about February 24” at a Medford, Oregon, Field and Stream store. (Field and Stream is subsidiary of Dick’s.) Watson’s suit, filed in the Circuit Court of Oregon for the County of Jackson, says a store employee refused the purchase and indicated, “He would not sell [Watson] any firearm, including rifles and shotguns, or ammunition for a firearm, because [Watson] is under 21 years old.”

The employee referenced Dick’s recent policy shift, disallowing firearm sales to anyone under 21, and cited the policy as the reason for denying the sale.


Should he be allowed to buy the rifle?

Image
n 2009, Ruger released the SR-22 Rifle model,

Watson’s suit alleges that Dick’s policy violates Oregon law against age-based discrimination for people 18 years and older in places of public accommodations. State law includes prohibitions against discrimination in stores that are open to the general public.
Last edited by windwalker on Tue Mar 06, 2018 5:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Some powerful shit

Postby Ian C. Kuzushi on Tue Mar 06, 2018 5:04 am

windwalker wrote:
A 20-year-old is suing Dick’s Sporting Goods after being refused a Ruger .22 rifle purchase based on his age.
The plaintiff, Tyler Watson, claims he faced “Unlawful Age Discrimination.”

Watson attempted to buy the rifle “on or about February 24” at a Medford, Oregon, Field and Stream store. (Field and Stream is subsidiary of Dick’s.) Watson’s suit, filed in the Circuit Court of Oregon for the County of Jackson, says a store employee refused the purchase and indicated, “He would not sell [Watson] any firearm, including rifles and shotguns, or ammunition for a firearm, because [Watson] is under 21 years old.”

The employee referenced Dick’s recent policy shift, disallowing firearm sales to anyone under 21, and cited the policy as the reason for denying the sale.


Should he be allowed to buy the rifle?

Watson’s suit alleges that Dick’s policy violates Oregon law against age-based discrimination for people 18 years and older in places of public accommodations. State law includes prohibitions against discrimination in stores that are open to the general public.



I wonder what people who ask questions like this think about refusing to sell cakes to people.
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Re: Some powerful shit

Postby windwalker on Tue Mar 06, 2018 5:19 am

Ian C. Kuzushi wrote:v
I wonder what people who ask questions like this think about refusing to sell cakes to people.


I wonder what that has to do with the topic, and why some people do not seem to understand what refusal of service and discrimination means.

Will he win his case, there is no law preventing him from legally buying and owning a rifle in OR.



A couple of recent court cases illustrate the fine line between discrimination and a justifiable refusal of service. In each case, a Colorado baker was sued for violating discrimination laws.

In the first case, the baker refused service to a customer who wanted her to bake a cake with anti-gay Bible verses on it. The customer argued that he was discriminated against because of his religious beliefs.

But the court ruled that this was not discrimination because the baker had a consistent policy of refusing to create cakes that used derogatory language or imagery.

In the second case, a baker refused to create a wedding cake for a same-sex couple, saying that it violated his religious beliefs. The court held the baker liable, saying that his reason was just a pretext for discriminating against gays.
Last edited by windwalker on Tue Mar 06, 2018 5:26 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Some powerful shit

Postby windwalker on Tue Mar 06, 2018 5:31 am

Ian C. Kuzushi wrote:

I wonder what people who ask questions like this think about refusing to sell cakes to people.


Considering my uncle who was gay was recently killed with a gun, if you really need to know you can just ask
me, no need to wonder.
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Re: Some powerful shit

Postby Ian C. Kuzushi on Tue Mar 06, 2018 5:44 am

Well, I was sort of asking you. I think your answer is an outlier among right-leaning Americans, but it's also important, as it is a reminder that no one is a caricature. I remember the very sad story up in the hills above SF, and I am still sad that it happened.

Still, I think the question is worth asking because I think both sides have irrational takes on this important issue.
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Re: Some powerful shit

Postby Ian C. Kuzushi on Tue Mar 06, 2018 5:50 am

I wonder what that has to do with the topic, and why some people do not seem to understand what refusal of service and discrimination means.

Will he win his case, there is no law preventing him from legally buying and owning a rifle in OR.


Well, I think you realized after the fact the connection.

As for "some people do not seem to understand what refusal of service and discrimination means." Well, that will be sorted in court. Refusal of service is generally allowed--unless it is discrimination. Is this discrimination? Never heard of a precedent for the young being discriminated against, but I'd guess it's out there. Still, seems much different than discriminating based on race, sex, partner, etc...I will be interesting to see how it shakes out. Oregon is a weird place. The I-5 corridor is quite liberal (with a good sprinkling of neo-nazis) but the rest of Oregon is a mix of ex-hippies and hardcore wannabe (and real) militiamen.
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Re: Some powerful shit

Postby windwalker on Tue Mar 06, 2018 6:34 am

Ian C. Kuzushi wrote:Well, I was sort of asking you. I think your answer is an outlier among right-leaning Americans, but it's also important, as it is a reminder that no one is a caricature. I remember the very sad story up in the hills above SF, and I am still sad that it happened.

Still, I think the question is worth asking because I think both sides have irrational takes on this important issue.


Don't consider myself right leaning or left...in gen I am for less gov...in most cases were it makes sense.

As to my uncle thanks for the thoughts.

The family and friends returned his ashes to the ocean in SF. this Jan.

Law is a funny thing, sometimes one thinks they understand it, until one sits in a room with the DA and
he talks about what a rough life the ones who took his life had, and how the family had to be careful about
what was said, as it could be used by the defendor to make a case for the killers, now awaiting trial in jail.

Needless to say, the family has some hard feelings towards the killers and yet in a strange way they didn't have
a chance....their lives starting from birth, and life choices lead them to meet my uncle. no one wins, all lose.

Not into guns, but have worked with them and know a little about them. I dont think there is any law that would
have prevented the kid from doing what he did in florida. If not with a gun it would have been something else...

In looking at it, it seems like there were system failures by the agencies charged with prevention, and
protecting the public.

The public should have the ability within law to protect itself.
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Re: Some powerful shit

Postby windwalker on Tue Mar 06, 2018 6:46 am

Ian C. Kuzushi wrote:.I will be interesting to see how it shakes out. Oregon is a weird place. The I-5 corridor is quite liberal (with a good sprinkling of neo-nazis) but the rest of Oregon is a mix of ex-hippies and hardcore wannabe (and real) militiamen.


Lived and worked in OR,,,never really cared for it, being from SF for me it just had a different cultural vibe.


As to the case. He tried in 2 places to buy a rifle from large chain stores not a small privet gun store or dealer, which kinda suggest that it was something he wanted to do pushing for an outcome not really about really buying a rifle.

I dont see how how the recent store policies will stand up in court as the law allows for his age group to buy and own rifles. They might even settle
before a court date is set...which might be what the kid and those behind him are looking for.....
Last edited by windwalker on Tue Mar 06, 2018 6:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
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