Ian C. Kuzushi wrote:Those are mostly facts and certainly not personal attacks. I'll bold them for you for ease of reading:
Be sure to bold the part about Antifa. That's extremely relevant to this discussion.
Ian C. Kuzushi wrote:Those are mostly facts and certainly not personal attacks. I'll bold them for you for ease of reading:
Michael wrote:Do you have any personal experience with guns? It doesn't sound like you do if you think it's easy to learn how to wield a machine gun effectively in combat without extensive training and experience.
Ian C. Kuzushi wrote:Michael wrote:Ian C. Kuzushi wrote:Finally, I thought you served? The M-4, M-16, or any American style long rifle is not hard to use, does not require much or any training, or any particular knowledge. Given that, the fact that he couldn't even hit his target makes all of your comments ridiculous.
How do you know he didn't hit his target? I'm going by his interview and various news sources. They could be wrong.
Yes, I was in the Marines, so I know something about shooting and it's really your comments about weapons training that are beyond ridiculous. You very obviously know nothing about combat, marksmanship or the training needed to bring them together. With such ignorance and the inability to listen, you're really unqualified to speak here in a technical or emotional sense.
I've been shooting all my life and the first time I ever shot a .308 long rifle I hit the shield every time at 100m with a red dot. That's unmagnified, ICYDK. I have also taken tactical training courses more than once. Most of my buddies from the Marines can outshoot me, but your comments are just fos. Long rifles don't take lots of training or knowledge. Period.
Michael wrote:Ian C. Kuzushi wrote:Those are mostly facts and certainly not personal attacks. I'll bold them for you for ease of reading:
Be sure to bold the part about Antifa. That's extremely relevant to this discussion.
Ian C. Kuzushi wrote:Michael wrote:Do you have any personal experience with guns? It doesn't sound like you do if you think it's easy to learn how to wield a machine gun effectively in combat without extensive training and experience.
Oh my. You don't even know that a long rifle isn't a machine gun. Like I said, GTFO.
Michael wrote:Ian C. Kuzushi wrote:Michael wrote:How do you know he didn't hit his target? I'm going by his interview and various news sources. They could be wrong.
Yes, I was in the Marines, so I know something about shooting and it's really your comments about weapons training that are beyond ridiculous. You very obviously know nothing about combat, marksmanship or the training needed to bring them together. With such ignorance and the inability to listen, you're really unqualified to speak here in a technical or emotional sense.
I've been shooting all my life and the first time I ever shot a .308 long rifle I hit the shield every time at 100m with a red dot. That's unmagnified, ICYDK. I have also taken tactical training courses more than once. Most of my buddies from the Marines can outshoot me, but your comments are just fos. Long rifles don't take lots of training or knowledge. Period.
Thanks for letting me know your experience.
If extensive weapons training is not required for effectiveness in combat, why do all the world's militaries do it? Please note there is a big difference between target shooting and weapons proficiency when you're not being fired at one-on-one, and it gets even more complex and difficult in groups. Is this not self-evident?
Michael wrote:So try and and stay focused on the main point. Is weapons training necessary to be effective in combat?
Ian wrote:Finally, I thought you served? The M-4, M-16, or any American style long rifle is not hard to use, does not require much or any training, or any particular knowledge. Given that, the fact that he couldn't even hit his target makes all of your comments ridiculous.
Did I say that training was not required for effectiveness in combat? No.
Ian wrote:How much training did the killer have, by the way? He killed 26 people not including himself.
Ian wrote:You can stop and admit you were wrong or you can keep deflecting and revealing how little you know about guns at the same time.
Ian C. Kuzushi wrote:The main point is that the fantasy of the armed citizen coming to the rescue is bullshit. That's it.
Michael wrote:Michael wrote:This is absurd. Every military in the world gives extensive training for such weapons
BruceP wrote:Michael wrote:Michael wrote:This is absurd. Every military in the world gives extensive training for such weapons
Absurd? Considering what you're arguing against, yeah.
A rested heart rate off the bench is pretty easy once you get trigger control and breathing down. Been shooting for more than 40 years for sport (run-and-gun, skeet, trap) and recreation. I don't hunt with a rifle but I carry one when camping, fishing and hiking.
My buddy has a motocross trail on his property that a bunch of us have used for more than 20 years for different run-and-gun formats ( hunting, stalking game and defensive/'tactical'). I've done rifle/pistol combo, rifle only and pistol only so many times it doesn't matter. I hate pistols because I suck when my heart rate is jacked. Combos are pretty mixed for me and for most of the guys I've shot with. I do best with rifle only, but I only run the courses with a bolt action as I don't really dig on the semi-autos - they burn ammo and are inconsistent without some tuning.
I can say with total authority that if you haven't bumped up your heart rate and fired at moving targets (trap) from a standing, unsupported offhand position, you can't comment on the vagaries of discharging ammo accurately and efficiently in a frenetic, fluid and 'energized' environment. It's tough enough to hit every target from seated-supported, kneeling, concealed, and off-hand when you have the luxury of 'catching your breath'. Action shooting is a discipline unto itself. I can't even imagine the skill of a biathlete. Crank all that to eleven when you're in the shit...
Anyone who tries to back up what you're arguing against, Micheal, is wasting your time.
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