North Korea South Korea Sitting in a Tree

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Re: North Korea South Korea Sitting in a Tree

Postby Bao on Mon Apr 30, 2018 12:21 pm

grzegorz wrote:Nah! I don't give the US much credit. To me it was all a matter of time.


Agreed.

And don’t forget that Xi Jingping has communicated a lot between S&N Korea and the US. Delegations from N Korea has been in China and Chinese officials have been visiting N Korea. If I would give the credit to anyone, I would give it to Xi. He has probably much more to do with what is happening now than Trump. Except for S&N Korea, China would benefit more than any other country If they could make peace and have a better relationship. The US would benefit the least as China becomes stronger.
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Re: North Korea South Korea Sitting in a Tree

Postby grzegorz on Mon Apr 30, 2018 12:24 pm

-lol- I give Pence all the credit for staring down North Korea in a leather jacket.

Image

FWIW Cadet Bone Spurs is saying he deserves full credit and people believe him. -lol-

https://youtu.be/MnjAFOeg_X0


windwalker wrote:“Clearly credit goes to President Trump“ -Foreign Minister of South Korea



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NH0e0SUF_0o


As a rule the world has figured out that if simply butter and stroke Trump's ego he will give you whatever you want. Most likely because he will be back in a few years to open a hotel in your country.
Last edited by grzegorz on Mon Apr 30, 2018 12:51 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: North Korea South Korea Sitting in a Tree

Postby windwalker on Mon Apr 30, 2018 2:00 pm

Bao wrote:
grzegorz wrote:Nah! I don't give the US much credit. To me it was all a matter of time.


Agreed. Which just happens to be this time with this president, might be better to look at causative agent

And don’t forget that Xi Jingping has communicated a lot between S&N Korea and the US. Delegations from N Korea has been in China and Chinese officials have been visiting N Korea. If I would give the credit to anyone, I would give it to Xi. He has probably much more to do with what is happening now than Trump. Except for S&N Korea, China would benefit more than any other country If they could make peace and have a better relationship. The US would benefit the least as China becomes stronger.


I think it was more due to the credible use of force due to the fact that NK had a credible weapon and delivery system capable of reaching the US.
The US had to act. Both China and NK understood that NK had finally crossed a tipping point which could not be ignored.


At any rate, all the players have been here before, kicking the can down the road as they say..... they just ran out of road.

By most accounts this time seems to be different with different actors
both of which have demonstrated that they will and have acted....

Something that past administrations never did allowing this point to be reached.


Lets hope for what ever reasons, by what ever means this came about, that in
the end its productive regardless of who credit is attributed to.

Of course if it doesn't come about I wonder who it will be attributed to.
Last edited by windwalker on Mon Apr 30, 2018 2:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: North Korea South Korea Sitting in a Tree

Postby grzegorz on Mon Apr 30, 2018 2:25 pm

I don't agree. I think Kim is willing to negotiate because he is coming in heavy. We are out of options, not Kim and don't forget Trump could still blow it but I doubt it will matter what the US does to the two Koreas.

The irony being that the draft dodger blows it his base will still back him yet is base is trying to use this to convert those who opppse him.
Last edited by grzegorz on Mon Apr 30, 2018 2:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: North Korea South Korea Sitting in a Tree

Postby grzegorz on Mon Apr 30, 2018 2:28 pm

Bao wrote:
grzegorz wrote:Nah! I don't give the US much credit. To me it was all a matter of time.


Agreed.

And don’t forget that Xi Jingping has communicated a lot between S&N Korea and the US. Delegations from N Korea has been in China and Chinese officials have been visiting N Korea. If I would give the credit to anyone, I would give it to Xi. He has probably much more to do with what is happening now than Trump. Except for S&N Korea, China would benefit more than any other country If they could make peace and have a better relationship. The US would benefit the least as China becomes stronger.


Xi being Emporer for life has a much stronger than hand that a few years of a draft dodger trash talker who refused to fight for his country could ever have.

Kim knows that Trump needs this.
Last edited by grzegorz on Mon Apr 30, 2018 2:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: North Korea South Korea Sitting in a Tree

Postby klonk on Mon Apr 30, 2018 3:38 pm

I define internal martial art as unusual muscle recruitment and leave it at that. If my definition is incomplete, at least it is correct so far as it goes.
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Re: North Korea South Korea Sitting in a Tree

Postby Steve James on Mon Apr 30, 2018 4:03 pm



I agree 100% from Park's point of view. Trump's "or else" would mean millions of Koreans dead. Afawk, that's still the option.

In general, though, negotiation through coercion might work; the problem is that it never makes friends. That is, unless the other side thinks the negotiation is fair. We only need to wonder what Kim thinks is to his benefit.

Vietnam won its war. Korea will too. But, peace is the winner. That's what the Vietnamese wanted, and I'm sure the Koreans want it too. It's a good thing.
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Re: North Korea South Korea Sitting in a Tree

Postby grzegorz on Mon Apr 30, 2018 4:08 pm



-lol-

Image

Not a bad beer!

Nobel Peace Prize is Korean for don't mess this up you fool!
Last edited by grzegorz on Mon Apr 30, 2018 4:10 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: North Korea South Korea Sitting in a Tree

Postby klonk on Tue May 01, 2018 11:39 am

Just what level of accomplishment do you think merits the Nobel Prize?

Image
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Re: North Korea South Korea Sitting in a Tree

Postby grzegorz on Tue May 01, 2018 1:43 pm

You are assuming that I agreed that Obama deserved a nobel peace prize. (See the why everyone on the internet is an ass thread.)

First of all nothing has officially happened except for a meeting between Kim and Moon. Did Trump do that?

Acoording to Trump the Olympics were a success because of him too.

I think the difference is because someone, the politicians, says something people believe it. I don't.

I think the reason why people are in a hurry to celebrate a Trump vicotry is because he has set the bar so low and the only thing he has accomplished is a huge corporate tax break giving us the greatest debt and deficit in history while the little guy gets bill.

Even under Reagan (who I am not a fan of) we would not have rushed out to give him a nobel peace prize before anything was actually accomplished. Remember Reagan and Gorbachev?

Ask yourself this question. When Koreans do all the work why should any American get all the credit? People do realize that peace with North Korea was what Moon ran on don't they?

Go ahead spike the football, but all this cheering and clapping reminds me of the most recent Republican president.

Image

Does the draft dodger who refused to fight for his country deserve a Nobel Peace Prize? Let's give it some time and see what he actually does first and see how it all plays out.

I remember when I was doing a history paper on Poland's Solidarnosc movement and the Poles voted out the communists. When I told Americans they were convinced that the US was behind it but there has never been evidence of that. Yes, believe it or not the world goes on with or without us and thank god for that.

For me, the Nobel Peace Prize would go to the Koreans.

G
Last edited by grzegorz on Tue May 01, 2018 2:51 pm, edited 10 times in total.
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Re: North Korea South Korea Sitting in a Tree

Postby klonk on Tue May 01, 2018 7:06 pm

My point, of course, is that you don't have to be Gandhi to win the Nobel Peace Prize. It can be, and has been on numerous occassions, awarded for lesser things than working toward unifying a country. If this Korea deal comes off, it will be a big achievement. World class. Believe me. ;D

BTW, Gandhi never got the prize. Go figure. If you want to see what rather pedestrian achievements, and what truly great ones, have gotten the prize, here is the list.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_N ... #Laureates
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Re: North Korea South Korea Sitting in a Tree

Postby Steve James on Tue May 01, 2018 7:35 pm

It really doesn't matter whether he gets the peace prize or not. It's interesting that the reason he'd get it wouldn't be because he recommended peace at all. He threatened war with NK "if" it didn't curtail its nuclear program. He never said during the campaign or afterward was the unification of the Koreas. Otoh, Kim's longtime goal has been reunification.

Still, from the perspective of those who see Kim as a madman who cannot be permitted to have weapons capable of reaching US territories or the mainland. Why did Kim want to threaten the US anyway? The war started because (according to us) the north invaded the south. (That's what some would call history, but whatever). With the help of China, the North was able to hold back a counter invasion by the US and allies. However, the North has always used the excuse that the US would re-invade at some point. That's why it has the huge military and spends billions on weapons that might be able to reach the US.

In reality, the ones who'd suffer the most would be the people on the ground on the peninsula. So, damn straight, the president of South Korea is happy as hell. His country is doing well, and it will only do better if it doesn't have to waste money on warfare.

Anyway, the other part of this peace thing that the other reason we were told to demonize Kim was because he ran a brutal, ruthless regime, perhaps the most brutal on earth. Do the smiles mean that it was all bs? If no, then what does all this mean afa the situation in the North?

What if some part or all of the deal --that we really don't know anything about except what Kim has offered-- falls through? Yeah, will we give Trump the credit for that? It's irrelevant. It's not about prizes. If Kim is now seen as a rational, reasonable, leader, he almost guarantees that any US intervention will be condemned --even by the South Koreans.
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Re: North Korea South Korea Sitting in a Tree

Postby klonk on Tue May 01, 2018 7:58 pm

Korea is not China, very different in some respects, but no man on earth, Asian or not, is fully indifferent to the question of "face."

If Kim gains face, and as a result, the people under his thumb get rice and cabbage, things they have not always had in any sufficiency, and Xi can relax about a troublesome neighbor... well, that is all to the good.

Yeah, guess you're right. It doesn't matter who gets the prize out of the Crackerjack box.
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Re: North Korea South Korea Sitting in a Tree

Postby grzegorz on Wed May 02, 2018 12:14 pm

Yeah! Trump is just like Gandhi.

Watch "Donald Trump on ISIS - "I would bomb the SHIT out of 'em!"" on YouTube

https://youtu.be/aWejiXvd-P8

Like it or not, Kim has the world by the balls including Trump.
Last edited by grzegorz on Wed May 02, 2018 12:16 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: North Korea South Korea Sitting in a Tree

Postby Ian C. Kuzushi on Wed May 02, 2018 12:56 pm

Some good info on the situation and background (both the progressive and conservative experts agree that Trump is not the primary actor or factor):

https://chicagotonight.wttw.com/2018/05 ... im-jong-un
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