North Korea South Korea Sitting in a Tree

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Re: North Korea South Korea Sitting in a Tree

Postby grzegorz on Sat Jun 23, 2018 11:55 pm

Michael wrote:Didn't you say here a few months ago that Otto was a thief who got what he deserved?


LOL!

Yeah that sounds like me...

I support all fascist dictators and governments killing their own people, tourists, journalists and citizens.

I guess you haven't realized that I am basically anarchist at heart.

I just think it is hilarious that Vice Pres brought Otto's parents to the Olympics and Trump gave Kim everything for nothing. If this were Obama the right would be eating him alive.

You will have to refresh my memory on Otto. I may have been pulling your leg which I do from time to time but comedy is tough in texts.

More than likely I am making fun of the fact that Otto was Trump's rallying cry and then when he meets Kim, nothing...
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Re: North Korea South Korea Sitting in a Tree

Postby grzegorz on Sun Jun 24, 2018 12:10 am

klonk wrote:
Image


Interesting this whole thing reminds me of the Chamberlain dog and pony show. In fact I was going to post the same but I thought it was obvious that Trump was desperate for a Kim photo op. Remember he said he would walk away if he wasn't satisfied?

Again I think my humor doesn't translate. I never believed that the "war" is over. If anything I never really believed that the Norks were a threat but they do see us as a threat which is why they built their arsenal and as a result "we" gave in.

To me this was just more reality TV. I have read as much as I can about what was said between and the two it seems to me that President Propecea was eating out of Kim's hands.

The part about two assholes still proves true. The fact is President Propecea is more comfortable around Kim, Putin, Duterte and others much more than leaders of true democracies. As a result we are now closer to dictator style governments.

Fact is that if the Persians kissed Trump's ass and agreed to a Trump hotel the Iran Nuclear deal would still stand.

All wars are based on lies.

Btw, you are aware that Trump said he is willing to pull the US military out of South Korea which when was done before led to the invasion of South Korea which became the Korean war?
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Re: North Korea South Korea Sitting in a Tree

Postby Michael on Sun Jun 24, 2018 6:22 am

Steve James wrote:Otto was a thief. He just gave the Norks a chance to screw over an American, although he didn't deserve a death sentence. Of course, a North Korean might have been treated worse.

Why do you believe that? Some headline you read?
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Re: North Korea South Korea Sitting in a Tree

Postby Steve James on Sun Jun 24, 2018 7:25 am

Michael wrote:
Steve James wrote:Otto was a thief. He just gave the Norks a chance to screw over an American, although he didn't deserve a death sentence. Of course, a North Korean might have been treated worse.

Why do you believe that? Some headline you read?


1) There's a video of him taking (er, they say stealing) a poster off of a wall.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SzVGIAcLsf8

2) He apologized at his trial for doing something wrong.

Like I said, he didn't deserve a death sentence. But, when in NK, Russia, or any foreign country, you are at the mercy of their legal system, no matter what it is. Then again, in the US, the law allows unarmed people fleeing to be shot in the back. So, I'm not particularly crying for Warmbier --as heartless as that might sound.

Edit: I hadn't really thought much about this issue. But, it's interesting that Warmbier links his crime to the encouragement of the CIA and the Obama administration --that, according to him, was trying to promote Christianity (go figga) in anti-Christian countries. Here's Otto's official story:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eiVLUPLcILU

Of course, the Christian church doesn't support or contribute to Republican administrations. Woweee. Yes, these times do remind me of what I read in history books about the 30s.
Last edited by Steve James on Sun Jun 24, 2018 7:40 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: North Korea South Korea Sitting in a Tree

Postby Steve James on Sun Jun 24, 2018 7:34 am

Interesting this whole thing reminds me of the Chamberlain dog and pony show.


Just as you and klonk and many others have observed, the comparisons to Chamberlain are stunning. The problem is that it's not politically correct to complete the analogy in any way.
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Re: North Korea South Korea Sitting in a Tree

Postby Michael on Sun Jun 24, 2018 9:03 am

I can't know for certain what happened, but I think it's obvious that Warmbeir was terrified before the trial in order to put on a show. The fact that the N. Koreans say he mysteriously lapsed into a coma the next day and that he, a young, healthy man, never regained consciousness and died a few days after being released shows that the story is not as simple as he stole a sign in his hotel. The video of some shadowy figure doing something is almost completely meaningless. The show trial and Warmbier's death tell me nothing N. Korea said about this deserves the benefit of the doubt.

I'm sorry, Steve, that you somehow associate this with the police problems in the USA.
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Re: North Korea South Korea Sitting in a Tree

Postby grzegorz on Sun Jun 24, 2018 12:48 pm

Funny how when 3 Americans were accused of stealing shades Trump supporters didn't give a damn even though we have no evidence as to whether they were guilty or not. (My belief is that is was probabaly just a shake down which Shanghai police are famous for.)

Oh yeah, I forgot that were not white.

Image

Despite whatever one thinks about the baskteball players or Otto. Trump doesn't care. Otto's parents and Otto himself were just pawns in a political chess game.

The answer is no. Trump did not bring up Otto because he was too busy kissing Kim's ass in an attempt to appear presidential.

But his base is waking up and realizing why Americans have never elected an outsider with zero experience in politics in any other time in history. The farmers will be hit very soon, if not already.
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Re: North Korea South Korea Sitting in a Tree

Postby Steve James on Sun Jun 24, 2018 1:05 pm

I can't know for certain what happened, but I think it's obvious that Warmbeir was terrified before the trial in order to put on a show.


Right. You can't know for certain, but the fact that there is video and he admits to theft or attempted theft mean that I certainly can't call him a thief.

I don't compare him to anything that happens in the US. I just see no reason for more sympathy for Otto than I've shown. If you want to condemn the Norks, go right ahead. I already said that Otto didn't deserve the treatment he got.

I don't know; but Otto's argument that it was all part of a Christian/CIA plot to ... do something could be true.
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Re: North Korea South Korea Sitting in a Tree

Postby Trick on Mon Jun 25, 2018 12:10 am

Steve James wrote:
I can't know for certain what happened, but I think it's obvious that Warmbeir was terrified before the trial in order to put on a show.


Right. You can't know for certain, but the fact that there is video and he admits to theft or attempted theft mean that I certainly can't call him a thief.

I don't compare him to anything that happens in the US. I just see no reason for more sympathy for Otto than I've shown. If you want to condemn the Norks, go right ahead. I already said that Otto didn't deserve the treatment he got.

I don't know; but Otto's argument that it was all part of a Christian/CIA plot to ... do something could be true.

[quote="Steve James"]

I yahooed “Yanggakdo Hotel” and found fairly good and interesting reviews on TripAdvisor, there are tourist groups of all nationalities touring in NK and as long one follow the set rules one will be more than ok in that country it seems. Otto was maybe a Part of something bigger and therefore not an regular tourist, countries do use students as “agents”, or maybe/probably he was just very very naive and though he could behave and do as he wanted as I see some expat students behave here in China.....Maybe he was into something bigger, maybe he fell ill for the same reason some US Embassy personell get ill in China and Cuba?
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Re: North Korea South Korea Sitting in a Tree

Postby Peacedog on Mon Jun 25, 2018 7:14 am

Otto made a mistake in a place where repercussions are harsh. As others have pointed out, you are subject to the laws of the place you are living in not those of where you are from.

North Korea is a god awe full horrible place run by ruthless tyrants who routinely execute their political rivals. As a guest in that place any misbehavior is going to be a problem.

Otto didn’t deserve what happened to him. That said, I still view what happened as more of a cautionary tale than anything else. The Department of State advises US citizens to not travel in North Korea. Cases like this are the reason why.
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Re: North Korea South Korea Sitting in a Tree

Postby Steve James on Wed Jun 27, 2018 7:56 am

Satellite images from last week show that North Korea is making numerous improvements to the infrastructure at a nuclear research facility, according to a new study.

The images, obtained by North Korea analysis outlet 38 North, come just weeks after President Trump and North Korean leader Kim Jong Un signed an agreement that called for a denuclearized Korean peninsula.
The satellite photos indicate that North Korea is quickly progressing on several adjustments to the Yongbyon Nuclear Scientific Research Center.

The improvements include a new cooling water pump house, multiple new buildings, completed construction on a cooling water reservoir and an apparently active Radiochemical Laboratory. It is unclear whether the reactor is still in operation, the report said.

38 North notes that North Korean nuclear officials are expected to proceed with "business as usual" until Kim orders official changes to procedure.

The agreement between Trump and Kim, signed at the historic summit in Singapore earlier this month, commits the U.S. to "security guarantees" in exchange for a denuclearized Korean peninsula. Critics said that the deal was unspecific and gave too much to North Korea without securing anything for the U.S. in return.


http://thehill.com/policy/international ... h-facility
https://www.haaretz.com/world-news/asia ... -1.6218454
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Re: North Korea South Korea Sitting in a Tree

Postby Steve James on Fri Jun 29, 2018 8:48 pm

Hmm, I wonder what the plan is if this is true. I'm less curious why there's no comment from the wh.(Why? Because I don't expect they'd say it was a problem, or that they hadn't planned for it, or that it was all part of the plan). Oh well, I guess this is what Kim means by de-nuclearization. It wasn't a lie; it was a euphemism.

https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2018/ ... es-report/
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Re: North Korea South Korea Sitting in a Tree

Postby grzegorz on Wed Jul 04, 2018 9:29 pm

North Korea Satellite Images Show Missile Plant Construction, Analysts Say

July 2, 2018


https://chicago.cbslocal.com/2018/07/02 ... ction/amp/

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Re: North Korea South Korea Sitting in a Tree

Postby grzegorz on Sat Jul 07, 2018 12:37 pm

Unless you buried your head in the sand you have to admit that Trump got handed his ass by Kim.
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Re: North Korea South Korea Sitting in a Tree

Postby Steve James on Sat Jul 07, 2018 4:27 pm

TOKYO —In a sharp signal that denuclearization negotiations with North Korea will be drawn out and difficult, Pyongyang on Saturday lambasted the U.S. stance as regrettable, gangster-like and cancerous, directly contradicting Secretary of State Mike Pompeo’s rosy assessment that his two days of talks had been “productive.”

A harsh statement from an unnamed spokesman for the Foreign Ministry was carried on the state-run Korea Central News Agency just hours after Pompeo left Pyongyang on Saturday and told reporters that significant progress had been made “in every element” of what he characterized as “good-faith negotiations.” Pyongyang crushed that appraisal, saying the United States had betrayed the spirit of the June 12 Singapore summit between President Trump and North Korean leader Kim Jong Un.

“The U.S. side came up only with its unilateral and gangster-like demand for denuclearization,” the statement said.

“The issues the U.S. side insisted on during the talks were the same cancerous ones that the past U.S. administrations had insisted on,” it added.

Though North Korea still has faith in Trump, the statement said, it warned that the U.S. approach had brought the two countries to a “dangerous” stage that could “rattle our willingness for denuclearization.”

It was unclear whether the North Korean statement represented potential doom for meaningful negotiations, as some analysts believed, or was just Pyongyang’s standard negotiating style, as others asserted. It exposed the fragility of discussions at the center of Trump’s foreign policy and raised questions about Pyongyang’s intentions.
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