some security confusion (funny story)

[hopgarsansau]

so i've been working in the nightclub/bar security business for a few months now, and more or less have had little trouble getting people out of the bar when need be, few times i had to get rough on customers who didnt take me seriously because of my size (5'9, 140 pounds) (one time rear naked choked a 250 pound frat boy who was over 6 feet and dragged him out of the bar..) last night was just plain funny.

there are two stations at the door, entrance and exit. i had switched off from entrance and was wearing a dark green jacket with our bar logo on it because it was cold out, so it was covering my red security shirt and hadn't taken it off. I was clicking customers out when the cocktail waitress came running up to me pointing towards the floor, two guys had gotten into it and it was a ground and pound session...

i ran over and started pulling them off each other (both these guys were in black t shirts), i had one guy pinned down with my forearm and the other i was keeping at bay with one hand until i got help from somebody to control one of them and i would take care of the other

suddenly i felt two hands on me from behind, i thought it was one of the customers, so i started to swing an elbow back, saw it was the bar manager, and stopped, he dragged me off and towards the door, head of security (my manager basically), this huge ex marine, grabs me by the head (master john wangs head control) and was about to slam me against the exit door.

now the bar is dark except at the exit where the windows allow the street lights to shine in, he takes one look at me, lets go, turns around and yells out "FUCK LAKE (bar manager) YOu GRABBED THE WRONG FUCKIN GUY!!!! THIS IS OUR GUY!!!!!!"

i quickly took off the jacket and stood there laughing uncontrollably...bar manager came over and apologized and everyone had a laugh over it later.

[Daniel]

Nice. This one happened to someone I know.

The guy is an instructor, using guns. This is a bit back, and he could still go through security with wooden replicas. This time, however, security stops him. An older officer and a younger officer start going through his pack.

The kid triumphantly lifts out the replica.
"Aha! What´s this, then? Are you trying to carry a gun through security?"
The guy explains that well, you know, it´s a replica of a gun, used for scenarios where it is safer using replicas when teaching people to take them off someone else.
The kid looks at him. "Okay, okay." He´s turning the gun in all directions, looking at it. "Right. But where do the bullets go?"
Older officer behind kid hides his eyes with his hand. Guy is let through pretty fastish.


...and I have another one about a security guard and his happening evening, but it´s kind of...raunchy...so I´ll stow it away for another time.

D.

Sarcasm. Oh yeah, like that´ll work.

[hopgarsansau]

please share lol

[cerebus]

Heh, heh, yes, do share. We're all about raunchy here...

[Darthwing Teorist]

I heard some truly hilarious stories from people teaching security guards.

[dragontigerpalm]

Sorry to rain on the humor parade but - if the bar is so dark that a friendly can't be distinguished from a non-friendly then it's too dark for security to be able to see expressions and behavior that precede altercations - which means it's too dark and very unsafe. Additionally, if rear choke holds and headlocks are the preferred method of extricating people from the bar then if you haven't all ready you will most likely at some point be down at the police station trying to explain your way out of assault charges and/or defending yourself in a civil suit.

[Dean]

Additionally, if rear choke holds and headlocks are the preferred method of extricating people from the bar then if you haven't all ready you will most likely at some point be down at the police station trying to explain your way out of assault charges and/or defending yourself in a civil suit.

I agree with you dragontigerpalm. There seems like there could be easier ways to deal with individuals.

[hopgarsansau]

i have law school students who come in who think theyre all that because theyre in law school threaten me to do something when they mess around

truth is our bar is a PRIVATE setting OPEN to the public, therefore, there is very little police involvement, we arent worried about assault. (my friend high up in the austin police department confirmed this, APD always ignores drunk guys who want to file assault charges against a bouncer)

civil suits, maybe, but i am paid to regulate and kick people out when need be, and i never initiate the violence. I always warn them many times, and when a fight breaks out, i have to do whatever necessary to end it. (realize i didnt throw a single punch during the altercation). its not a prefered methow, but i would say 1/4 times, some level of physical violence is necessary to get the job done.

[meeks]

that's right. guy's claim could be:

I went out for a few drinks and fun with my friends at ###### bar. I got jumped by a couple of guys and while defending myself, the bar staff decided to put a strangle hold on me and slam my face into a door to open it.

you wouldn't have a hope in hell.

[cerebus]

that's right. guy's claim could be:

I went out for a few drinks and fun with my friends at ###### bar. I got jumped by a couple of guys and while defending myself, the bar staff decided to put a strangle hold on me and slam my face into a door to open it.

you wouldn't have a hope in hell.

I dunno. If you've been drinking when something goes down, get out or you will be automatically considered wrong (unless you can find a surveillance showing otherwise). Cops and judges have been dealing with drunks since the earliest days of law and that's about how long they've been out of patience with them. As a former cop, I can tell ya that whenever we would respond to a bar fight, if the guy who got roughed up by the bouncer had alcohol in him then he probably had it coming. Bouncers don't usually start trouble, 'cause they've got enough concerns without creating more of 'em...

[dragontigerpalm]

that's right. guy's claim could be:

I went out for a few drinks and fun with my friends at ###### bar. I got jumped by a couple of guys and while defending myself, the bar staff decided to put a strangle hold on me and slam my face into a door to open it.

you wouldn't have a hope in hell.

I dunno. If you've been drinking when something goes down, get out or you will be automatically considered wrong (unless you can find a surveillance showing otherwise). Cops and judges have been dealing with drunks since the earliest days of law and that's about how long they've been out of patience with them. As a former cop, I can tell ya that whenever we would respond to a bar fight, if the guy who got roughed up by the bouncer had alcohol in him then he probably had it coming. Bouncers don't usually start trouble, 'cause they've got enough concerns without creating more of 'em...

I have to take issue with a couple of points here. What you say about how cops and courts viewed and were dismissive of drunks and bar fights was more the case several years ago at least here in New York. Maybe it's still the case in Austin where Hopgarsansou is and wherever you were on the job but the times they are a changing. Now where I am if the cops respond to a call and find an injured person or if the injured person calls, flags down a patrol car or finds his way to the police dept. the first two questions asked by the cops are "do you need or want medical attention?" and "do you wish to file a complaint?". If it's yes to either question an investigation is begun. Certainly cops still have quite a lot of discretion in how they wish to pursue the inquiry or report the incident and it definitely pays to have as I do a good friendly working relationship with the police. Still, as I've said in other threads, every police dept. has at least one hard nose and/or over zealous rookie who will bust your chops as long as they can. The thing about the drinking aspect is IME it's rarely the obvious drunk that requires a significant physical response - they're already on the downside of the drinking experience and are already off- balanced and easily moved out. It's the guys on the upside of drinking with only a few -sometimes chemically enhanced - in them that get motivated and require physicality. If the cops are called they don't usually see a falling down drunk. Additionally, in this more litigious society and often not knowing who the injured party is, the cops are first and foremost going to make sure that they cover their asses. A couple of years ago I had a customer who was barely hit by another patron - not a bouncer - call the police. It turned out that he was the nephew of a detective and the ensuing investigation would have given the Warren Commission a run for its money. It was all for show and all for nought but it was still a PIA. Lastly, regarding bouncers starting trouble - there are many who do and many who even when they don't start a problem are very quick to throw gas on a fire. They're often young ex jocks who feel very empowered by their position and mostly work in kids' bars. Sometimes they're just assholes who work anywhere. IME, bouncers who use choke holds in any but the most dangerous situations ( I know and have worked with several) are or will be trouble and are a great liabilty.

[cerebus]

Admittedly my time in law enforcement was from 1988 to 1992. Many things may have changed since then....

[Dean]

IME, bouncers who use choke holds in any but the most dangerous situations ( I know and have worked with several) are or will be trouble and are a great liabilty.

Agreed, can you imagine someone doing that to your son or brother. Excessive force equals problems I don't care where you live.

i have law school students who come in who think theyre all that because theyre in law school threaten me to do something when they mess around

truth is our bar is a PRIVATE setting OPEN to the public, therefore, there is very little police involvement, we arent worried about assault. (my friend high up in the austin police department confirmed this, APD always ignores drunk guys who want to file assault charges against a bouncer)

civil suits, maybe, but i am paid to regulate and kick people out when need be, and i never initiate the violence. I always warn them many times, and when a fight breaks out, i have to do whatever necessary to end it. (realize i didnt throw a single punch during the altercation). its not a prefered methow, but i would say 1/4 times, some level of physical violence is necessary to get the job done.

I would say be careful, you wouldn't want to come off as being a assailant. I don't care who you know in the Austin Police Department.

[hopgarsansau]

here's the thing, i do this job because i need to pay bills and i try to send money back to my mom. i have a daytime job with tmobile as a sales rep but i could always use extra money.

i'm paid to kick people out, as a bouncer, to the publics eyes, i am automatically the bad guy. When you ask a 250 pound frat boy to please leave, we are now closed, for ten minutes straight, he looks down and sneers at you and asks "what are you gonna do about it chink?' (while trying to impress a girl and has been drinking all night) and your manager is yelling at you over the radio to get their group out the door, do i have a choice but to do what i need to do to physically remove him?

i'd rather risk a civil suit under those circumstances than lose my job for not doing it.

[Plante]

i'd rather risk a civil suit under those circumstances than lose my job for not doing it.

You might lose a lot more money with the civil suit than by losing your job...