MAD MAX here we come!

[PartridgeRun]

Hello emptyflower!

Here's a link to a roundtable discussion with Matt Simmons and Rich Hirsch on the doodoo we are all collectively in with regards to liquid fuels. It's 55 minutes long, but well worth your time.

--http://www.netcastdaily.com/broadcast/fsn2008-1213-2.mp3--
or goto
--http://www.financialsense.com/fsn/main.html

Very scary stuff I tells you - better than watching a horror movie (if you can get the implications that is ).

[Bill]

There is a slight chance that oil will not run out. See...........

The Deep Hot Biosphere : The Myth of Fossil Fuels
by Thomas Gold



Cornell University Professor Emeritus Gold, however, who for 20 years directed the Cornell Center for Radiophysics and Space Research, here proposes the striking theory that "a full functioning... biosphere, feeding on hydrocarbons, exists deep within the earth, and that a primordial source of hydrocarbons lies even deeper." Most scientists think the oil we drill for comes from decomposed prehistoric plants. Gold believes it has been there since the earth's formation, that it supports its own ecosystem far underground and that life there preceded life on the earth's surface. The "deep hot biosphere" hypothesis would explain the thermophiles, the minerals and the oil Swedish drillers found in 1990 under rock where no one expected them.


I read this book a few months ago and its fascinating reading.

[Darthwing Teorist]

But even if this is true, if our rate of extraction is larger than the rate of oil formation, we are fucked. It is even worse if there is a biosphere there (intraterrestrials anyone?) because it means that we don't know much about it and we are royally screwing it. Until we awaken something up...

[Bill]

(if)The oil is already formed. It is it's trickle upward rate that matters.

[Darth Rock&Roll]

There has been research in russia going on for some 50 years or so that indicates that oil is produced in a biotic fashion within the earth.

we tap pools of produced oil that are the results of this process.

I believe that is what the deep hot book is dealing with is those theories as produced by russian scientists.
and yes, it is fascinating.

I think the term "fossil fuel" was coined in the late 1700's and has been stuck with ever since even though it may not be true at all.

[Bill]

Gold says that hydrocarbons are found on 10 other planetary bodies. As they never had dinosaurs, where did their hydrocarbons come from. Why would the Earth be any different ?

[PartridgeRun]

Hhhmm, even if abiotic formation of hydrocarbons was taken seriously - which it ain't - Darthwing nailed it, it wouldn't matter one bit, just have a look at this very short piece http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/w ... _oil.shtml.

Man, if you would just listen to the roundtable-discussion - it answers A LOT of questions.

Basically, even the IEA, which is OECD backed (and so for many years maintained an optimistic, cornucopian approach, we need growth remember!) have begun putting the cards on the table and saying it like it is...... and it's right fuckin scary I'm telling you.

[Darth Rock&Roll]

I don't think the end of carcinogenic causingfuels is bad.

fuck it, grind civilization to a halt? I doubt it. The flu will do that for us.

I don't know what the big whoop is, we been here a long time and we grew and flourished without oil for a longer time than we've been dependent on it.

If we were to actually just dump it, I am certain we would develop another source rather quickly and I'm gonna also stretch that out into a source that is not as harmful to us as oil is.

nothing scary about an oil free world.

[PartridgeRun]

you must be joking, right??...our entire socioeconomic model/system is predicated on continued access to cheap oil. As if the coming economic depression wasn't enough, that's just gonna be icing on the cake, the cake being lack of access to energy with which to power it all.
Do you believe we can make a return to business as usual, without access to cheap, dense forms of energy?

I mean, not only have the human population gone way far into overshoot, exceeding earth's carrying capacity many times over (with the Green Revolution and all that), but the stuff that made this possible is now dwindling - fast.
I like to hug trees, I like to sniff the flowers, I'm welcoming the collapse, but to say that it's going to be small taters...that's just obtuse man

It's scary, because on top of societal collapse, it means that the mother of malthusian catastrophes is right on the feckin' doorstep.

Anyways, enough from chicken little --->

[qiphlow]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bmxyj6iInMc

[Darth Rock&Roll]

;D you must be joking, right??...our entire socioeconomic model/system is predicated on continued access to cheap oil. As if the coming economic depression wasn't enough, that's just gonna be icing on the cake, the cake being lack of access to energy with which to power it all.
Do you believe we can make a return to business as usual, without access to cheap, dense forms of energy?

I mean, not only have the human population gone way far into overshoot, exceeding earth's carrying capacity many times over (with the Green Revolution and all that), but the stuff that made this possible is now dwindling - fast.
I like to hug trees, I like to sniff the flowers, I'm welcoming the collapse, but to say that it's going to be small taters...that's just obtuse man

It's scary, because on top of societal collapse, it means that the mother of malthusian catastrophes is right on the feckin' doorstep.

Anyways, enough from chicken little --->

1) no I'm not kidding

2) we are not in a state of overpopulation so much as wealth as we know it is threatened because the more people there are, teh less pie there is to eat, until you find a way to make more pie!

3) I wouldn't worry too much about it because you live in a fat country where even the poor can be obese and drive a car. (I am assuming you are in a g8 country)

Be unafraid and walk towards that new tomorrow and now and then say "fuck it". Fuck big oil, fuck big profit, fuck greedy societies, fuck the system that supports greed.

[chud]

If we can get the shadow government to release some of the technology they captured from the aliens, we won't have to worry about oil.

[Darth Rock&Roll]

aliens? fuck that. Tesla made an electric car 100 years ago.

You wanna know who the problem is?

the three companies begging for money right now and the other companies that provide them with fuel.

there's your disaster crew right there.

It is GM, Ford and Chrysler that are holding things back based on the love of money. For that matter

[PartridgeRun]

1) no I'm not kidding

2) we are not in a state of overpopulation so much as wealth as we know it is threatened because the more people there are, teh less pie there is to eat, until you find a way to make more pie!

3) I wouldn't worry too much about it because you live in a fat country where even the poor can be obese and drive a car. (I am assuming you are in a g8 country)

Be unafraid and walk towards that new tomorrow and now and then say "fuck it". Fuck big oil, fuck big profit, fuck greedy societies, fuck the system that supports greed.

1) shit, that's too bad.

2) you're talking out of your ass here.

3) hehe, here you're spot on and even though the machete moshpits(not my term...but it's right brilliant) will erupt in other places first, I'm certain they'll reach the cold north in due time...I'm gonna be well prepared for that though

Qiphlow; What kind of subversive shit went down in that video? Can't see it - it's the chinese government whodunnit....and I'm just too indolent to do anything about it.

[roger hao]

Oill and the auto industry screwed US rail systems into near oblivion - that is where the money should go -
Once the delivery system is updated ( rail network ) it will be easy to power it with what ever energy makes sense,