self defense from ... dogs?

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Re: self defense from ... dogs?

Postby origami_itto on Tue Jun 20, 2023 6:57 am

windwalker wrote:
I've got a couple pit bull/German shepards and they let me throw them around but when they get mad at each other they scare the shit out of me.


meaning he might not have the control he feels and so feels a sense of fear in understanding this



Control is an illusion bud, you'd do a lot better in life surrendering that need.

If 150lbs of German Shepard/Pit Bull yelling at each other doesn't scare you then you don't appreciate the power of the beasts and you have no business handling or speaking about the handling of them.

All three of my pit bulls obey my six year old. They have been trained to not bite each other but when one breaks the rules the others still feel compelled to correct him by barking. We are working on it but for real if you know somebody that wants a dog, hmu.

For arts centered on Wu wei y'all really love to make up stories in your head.

And a warrior spirit afraid to speak directly? Stab me in the front you coward.
Last edited by origami_itto on Tue Jun 20, 2023 7:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: self defense from ... dogs?

Postby windwalker on Tue Jun 20, 2023 7:54 am

origami_itto wrote:
windwalker wrote:
I've got a couple pit bull/German shepards and they let me throw them around but when they get mad at each other they scare the shit out of me.


meaning he might not have the control he feels and so feels a sense of fear in understanding this



Control is an illusion bud, you'd do a lot better in life surrendering that need.

If 150lbs of German Shepard/Pit Bull yelling at each other doesn't scare you then you don't appreciate the power of the beasts and you have no business handling or speaking about the handling of them.

All three of my pit bulls obey my six year old. They have been trained to not bite each other but when one breaks the rules the others still feel compelled to correct him by barking.
We are working on it but for real if you know somebody that wants a dog, hmu.

For arts centered on Wu wei y'all really love to make up stories in your head.

And a warrior spirit afraid to speak directly? Stab me in the front you coward.


"And a warrior spirit afraid to speak directly? Stab me in the front you coward"

what does this even mean, on the net ;D

along with "Control is an illusion bud, you'd do a lot better in life surrendering that need."

;D but you "trained" the dogs to "what" training is not a form of "control" :P




Trained the dogs to do "ect"

Until they don't...."wow they never did that before" always said by those who feel they've trained the dog not to "what ever"

"y'all really love to make up stories in your head"

yep in "your head". maybe and then there is this

A male pit bull, kept on a chain in the basement, killed 7-year-old Zachary King Jr. in Minneapolis on Thursday afternoon.
The dog belonged to his parents.


Pitbull ownership debate reignited after baby and toddler mauled to death



"Why do many pitbulls turn on their owners?"


most people as you feel they are the exception,,maybe, maybe not....

Time will tell
Last edited by windwalker on Tue Jun 20, 2023 8:03 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: self defense from ... dogs?

Postby windwalker on Tue Jun 20, 2023 8:10 am

If 150lbs of German Shepard/Pit Bull yelling at each other doesn't scare you then you don't appreciate the power of the beasts and you have no business handling or speaking about the handling of them.


being scared of something is different from respecting it....Have a healthy respect for dogs and other animals as well as nature...

For example waves in the ocean, some may be scared of them others may not feel so respecting them and understanding their nature...
Sometimes the respect is overridden by some feeling they can "appreciate the power of the beast" taking steps to mitigate ie "control" it through
"training"

at other times as with "waves" some might not recognize the limits of their own understanding,,,ignoring what they might feel if they do at all..

The mind set is different....
Last edited by windwalker on Tue Jun 20, 2023 8:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: self defense from ... dogs?

Postby Steve James on Tue Jun 20, 2023 10:08 am

People do think pit bulls are more dangerous, but they're not mean by nature. They can be big and super protective, though. Around kids, imo, it's most important for the kids to be socialized with the dog. I.e., not tease or deliberately annoy the dog, like throwing toys, etc. I know this from a situation with a German Shephard that had to be given away because the two-year old would throw toys at the dog while it was chained up. The parents were rightly afraid that the dog would break the chain. Otoh, I know plenty of people who've raised pitties alongside their kids. So, in that case, if you see a kid with such a dog, do not tease the kid. Rather, don't think about it.

It's just true that a 150lb guard breed needs to be totally under the control of the handler, but that control is an illusion that the human needs to make the dog believe. If you're 150lbs, maybe a 120lbs guard dog isn't right for you.

I'm scared of the people who are handling more than the breed. I don't pet dogs or approach them. In fact, I will appear to ignore them.
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Re: self defense from ... dogs?

Postby everything on Wed Jun 21, 2023 12:02 pm

I'm not really in a scenario of random dogs often, but I'm not really out on random dog-lover trails.

One day, my neighbor's amazing golden retriever escaped its house and came to my WFH window. I had no idea whose dog it was. I really wanted to pet him (not sure of gender), and called it to my window, but I was on a call. I tried to tell the dog I wanted to pet him, and he super smartly went up to my door instead of my window, but me being far dumber than the dog, had no idea he did that. Later on our neighborhood social media page, some other neighbor was freaking out due to fear of dogs, but tried to explain someone's nice dog was roaming around in case someone lost the dog.
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Re: self defense from ... dogs?

Postby origami_itto on Wed Jun 21, 2023 1:07 pm

Steve James wrote:People do think pit bulls are more dangerous, but they're not mean by nature. They can be big and super protective, though. Around kids, imo, it's most important for the kids to be socialized with the dog. I.e., not tease or deliberately annoy the dog, like throwing toys, etc. I know this from a situation with a German Shephard that had to be given away because the two-year old would throw toys at the dog while it was chained up. The parents were rightly afraid that the dog would break the chain. Otoh, I know plenty of people who've raised pitties alongside their kids. So, in that case, if you see a kid with such a dog, do not tease the kid. Rather, don't think about it.

It's just true that a 150lb guard breed needs to be totally under the control of the handler, but that control is an illusion that the human needs to make the dog believe. If you're 150lbs, maybe a 120lbs guard dog isn't right for you.

I'm scared of the people who are handling more than the breed. I don't pet dogs or approach them. In fact, I will appear to ignore them.


My boys are 75 lbs each, and they are very sweet. they have a lot of energy and left unchecked and undisciplined, like any dog, that can turn into aggression.

The only trouble we had with them so far is with the dog we started with, a lab/boxer/dachsund. She actually nipped the kids a time or two and they were literally raised next to each other. We got the pup when my youngest was about 6 months old.

So she was a nipper, and would snap at the kids if they surprised her, even incidentally, when she was sleeping.

When i wound up getting the two shepard/pits, she (the dachsund mix) kept trying to boss them around and one day they decided to stop letting her do it and they messed up her leg pretty bad. Had to get seven stitches.

I was able to rehome her though which brought us back down to the two boys and my wife's American Pit weighing in around 45.

It is hard to rehome dogs. My ex wife saddled us with all three of them because she just HAD to have a dog and then HAD to have a puppy or a baby, then HAD to get rid of the one because she nipped my daughter so we needed another to keep the first busy, jfc, anyhow she told me they were "red heeler" puppies, come to find out they were "Red nosed pit bull" puppies.

Been trying for over a year now and seriously, nobody wants your old dog, people will kill them if you are really persistent about it and ignore the guilt, giving them to a no-kill shelter is expensive as hell and isn't really an improvement.

And me, like... not really a dog person, you know.. too much work. They ran a little wild for a bit, but we've learned together and they're a little rude sometimes but super sweet and not even mean to each other. The one boy is just kind of dumb, so when he acts up the smaller one, who is a year older and a "nanny dog" American Pit will nip at his neck or grumble in his ear. When he tries to run out of the door, however, his brother gets REALLY pissed and gives him a dressing down.

The door is really our danger area. They want to go on walks so when one of them messes that up they get frustrated at him. A couple times the dumb one has tried to stand up for himself then, and that escalates a little as the smart one will just knock him down and stand over him fully demonstrating that he could end him at will.

It is a zoo, however, once that dynamic started happening we just ramped up the discipline and it's been months since it's gotten that tense.

I think the biggest hurdle was learning that you can't muscle them around. You have to elicit compliance through managing their mental and emotional state through various means. Automatic compliance through conditioning being the goal. where the thought to disobey doesn't even enter their head.

As far as my daughters go, really the best thing to do is slather them with gravy and lock them up in the crate with them when you head out to the strip club for the evening.
Last edited by origami_itto on Wed Jun 21, 2023 1:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: self defense from ... dogs?

Postby everything on Wed Jun 21, 2023 1:12 pm

origami_itto wrote:As far as my daughters go, really the best thing to do is slather them with gravy and lock them up in the crate with them when you head out to the strip club for the evening.

I must've missed like 10 other stories. But it's ok, this one liner taken out of context (maybe even better because of it) is great. :P ;D
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Re: self defense from ... dogs?

Postby Steve James on Wed Jun 21, 2023 1:28 pm

Did you know that if a service dog comes up to you, you should follow it because it's owner is in trouble.

:) Otoh, if the dog's frothing at the mouth, don't believe it's friendly. The same for foxes, btw. When they're rabid, they're not like cudjo at first.
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Re: self defense from ... dogs?

Postby origami_itto on Wed Jun 21, 2023 1:35 pm

I saw this video of a woman fighting a rabid racoon off her daughter the other day, even them little critters can be troublesome when they have no fear and feel no pain.

Also ran across a video of a couple wolves taking out a pet dog. Was pretty undramatic, really, they just walked up to it, one barked at it and when he turned towards the barker the other got his throat, was over in seconds.
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Re: self defense from ... dogs?

Postby everything on Wed Jun 21, 2023 1:53 pm

i have a former colleague training a service dog. amazing to see some of the process. a lot of training to ignore daily life noises and sights.
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Re: self defense from ... dogs?

Postby Bhassler on Wed Jun 21, 2023 2:41 pm

Last I checked, pit bulls do not have higher bite rates than other breeds, they just get more media coverage because when they do bite, it can be much more damaging than say, a miniature poodle. Depending on the source, statistics can also be misleading, because any dog of indeterminate breed with short hair is generally called a "pit bull". That said, in the past couple decades there has been a problem with back yard breeders who deliberately try to breed a mean, unstable dog. Pit bulls that are true to the standard, however, are among the least likely to bite, because they were bred not to. A fighting dog was expected to be able to be handled by strange humans before, during, and after fights-- any dog that showed any aggression at any time towards humans, regardless of circumstance, was not bred. That's history, though; I wouldn't bet my wellbeing on it, now.

As far as dog attacks and dog training, dogs don't simply attack out of the blue, any more than humans do. If you think either is likely to happen, or you're afraid of either, the answer is likely based in behavioral education (as in learning to read others' behaviors) and not in technical methods of handling an attack.

If you're afraid of your own dog at any time, no matter what, either that dog is short of a full deck, and you need professional intervention to determine the best course of action, or your dog is just improperly cared for and trained. Almost always it's the latter.
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Re: self defense from ... dogs?

Postby everything on Wed Jun 21, 2023 3:05 pm

here in the USA, where random shootings happen seemingly every weekend, it's probably

- risk of falling by seniors (a huge demographic group)
- road rage / road stupidity
- domestic violence
- random mass shootings

that are violent "self-defense" scenarios that are too common. but if someone is afraid of dogs or around random dogs a lot, probably could use some of the advice and training mentioned by rsf. i'm sure somewhere there is a postal worker or delivery driver forum full of even more good tips
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Re: self defense from ... dogs?

Postby origami_itto on Wed Jun 21, 2023 3:28 pm

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Re: self defense from ... dogs?

Postby Steve James on Wed Jun 21, 2023 4:26 pm

If you're afraid of your own dog at any time, no matter what, either that dog is short of a full deck, and you need professional intervention to determine the best course of action, or your dog is just improperly cared for and trained. Almost always it's the latter.


Yep. If your dog knows you're afraid of it, it will start to handle you.
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Re: self defense from ... dogs?

Postby origami_itto on Wed Jun 21, 2023 5:06 pm

Steve James wrote:
If you're afraid of your own dog at any time, no matter what, either that dog is short of a full deck, and you need professional intervention to determine the best course of action, or your dog is just improperly cared for and trained. Almost always it's the latter.


Yep. If your dog knows you're afraid of it, it will start to handle you.

I think if my dogs thought I were afraid of them, something would be dead by now lol

But they are scary fuckin dogs, no question. Would not want them mad at me.
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