Ideological Subversion

[origami_itto]

The cool thing about social manipulation is that it's ideologically agnostic.

This guy is discussing this as a means of spreading communism, but as he says it's clear to see the process in action if you step back, and it's the fascists running the show now.

The ism is just the vehicle for the concentration of power and no system created of humans is immune from the corruption.

So they push in one direction, we feel it and push back and they use that Resistance to pull us further in the other direction.

Now we've reached the state he describes. All the information in the world, completely unable to reach meaningful conclusions about reality.

Meanwhile the world looks at us with fear, hatred, and contempt, and rightly so. Fascist is as fascist does.

[Trick]

duality - thats how our perceived universe/world works, cant have one without the other, the one feeds the other.

[everything]

it's interesting because his arguments seem to rely on a premise that "the people" care about ideology. OOH, I'd disagree because of Maslow's hierarchy. They are busy working for "The Man" or trying to be "The Man". OOTH, some people really DO seem well-brainwashed (accelerated by social media), believing an orange orangutan con artist out for himself cares about them or anything they care about, totally unable to see reality, despite the orangutan's inner circle revealing what's actually happened. In that sense, maybe that is successful subversion. maybe the most successful subversion ever. but ... guess we have to wait and find out.

[origami_itto]

People care passionately about their ideology, it's the big hooks they use to steer the herd around. US Politics is nothing but clashing ideologies and identities with very little attention paid to policy.

And now the USSR is gone, communism failed, and they've managed to get a large contingent of the US supporting Putin over NATO in his attempt to annex a sovereign nation.

The mind boggles.

[everything]

voter turnout seems pretty low, so i think i have the complete opposite opinion. maybe i just know the apathetic half of the eligible voters. this is assuming a voting action is a bare minimum action, and that ALL voters are voting based solely on ideology.

[origami_itto]

All people operate subconsciously and consciously based on their ideology. We're talking about morals and values here, that's what people vote. They used to say they voted their wallets but that seems less and less true as time goes on.

Your conscious reasons for your choice are your rationalizations, the stories you tell yourself to feel good about your actions.

This is water.

[everything]

"ideology" is probably too strong a word. as in "a system of ideas and ideals, especially one which forms the basis of economic or political theory and policy."

maybe "mental model" is ok. so "I identify with the stupid orange orangutan; he's an idiot like me" is some kind of underlying mental model that is manipulated by the people who want to do "ideological subversion". maybe that's the genius of the subversion. not sure anyone could foresee just how effective it would be.

but we will see if the USA justice and political system can handle it, I suppose. the idea that there is an educated or at least informed-by-free press voting populace is maybe the worst premise in all of this.

[origami_itto]

but we will see if the USA justice and political system can handle it, I suppose. the idea that there is an educated or at least informed-by-free press voting populace is maybe the worst premise in all of this.

Miseducated.

I don't know about you, but they never taught me in school about when the government teamed up with corporations to massacre workers or racists to massacre black people, or the native residential schools.

Point being I guess that the masses are easily led by their passions and can get quite passionate about their ideological identity (and that of others).

I mean, right now in this country, they see a man in a dress and their go-to joke is "must be a bud light drinker" like... it's so pervasive, and the useful idiots are whipping them into a frenzy.

[everything]

if that "military industrial complex" is the enemy of "the people", maybe the people need an "ideological subversion" but for "the good" of "the people" instead of the good of a con artist who pretends to be good for the people.