Understanding Consciousness

[Bob]

https://www.scientificamerican.com/arti ... -universe/

Miles to go, if ever!

[Steve James]

So, what do you think Bob? Can a human consciousness (brain) understand itself and its creator any more than a computer ... or a dog?

[Bob]

No idea - just amusing observations of human existence, its complexity and the speculative nature of the article.

[Dmitri]

Oh, boy... Yet more human-centric theorizing...

It turns out that our subjective consciousness appears to have a big role in the finer workings of physics at large—especially at the quantum level, where there may be no objective outcomes, only subjective experiences.

"It turns out", really? "Is there an objective reality, or is it all in our heads?" - someone needs to walk over and smack these guys on their oversized heads.
The answers aren't in adding complexity, because the questions don't need fancy wording and degrees in theoretical physics and philosophy.
- How about trying to talk to a 6-month-old child - how's that consciousness doing?
- Try interacting with a 3-week-old baby, on any level... If you stop projecting for a minute (that they have this "smart look" or that they "understand" something), you might notice that he or she is nothing more than a little bio-machine responding (slowly) to stimuli as its complexity gradually increases.
- Think about a 3-day-old embryo - any consciousness in there, affecting "physics at large"?

...simple questions like that.

[Steve James]

I agree that it's a mistake to project human "consciousness" onto or away from anything, including the universe. Yes, cells are conscious, else how could consciousness arise from them. Imo, our idea of "consciousness" is based on the fact that it creates meaning out of what we are "conscious" of. One difference is that human consciousness can create things and we, as a species, seem to be the best at it. I.e., we can make the best stuff (even though it's self destructive).

Put it like this, a human can develop a way to look at a star, and everyone who looks through it may create a different idea of what's there. Dogs have consciousness, but if they look through a microscope, they won't have questions. Neither will 2 month-olds. The philosophical and scientific question is where does that type of consciousness come from.

Otoh, I think it could be true that the way the universe and our consciousness work is based on mechanisms we can not be conscious of, though we can imagine them. Maybe it's true that it's all maya, or like the Dao, -afa we're concerned. But, unlike conscious ants, we want to find out.

[Bob]

The flip side of the coin, the unconscious, takes it to an even more dizzying height.

[Dmitri]

cells are conscious, else how could consciousness arise from them.

Via a "qualitative change" - the same way a building is made of bricks. No single cell is "conscious" IMO, as it implies awareness of it's existence, which in turn requires a certain level of neural complexity.

The flip side of the coin, the unconscious, takes it to an even more dizzying height.

I think it's the same thing; the line between the two is so vague, it may be argued that it doesn't exist at all.

[Steve James]

No single cell is "conscious" IMO, as it implies awareness of it's existence, which in turn requires a certain level of neural complexity.

Maybe. Self-awareness is already a human-based construct. The problem is in defining 'consciousness" in general. But, assuming your argument is true, there must have been some point at which pre-homo sapiens became "self-aware." The question is how. There is a book "the origin of consciousness in the bicameral brain" (iirc). His argument was that the Greeks were the first to be able to separate the voices in their heads from the voices in their imagination. Some indigenous peoples still consider their dream-lives as real as their waking (conscious) lives.

[everything]

Brain experiment suggests that consciousness relies on quantum entanglement

And then there is consciousness, neuroscience’s giant question mark. What causes it? How does it arise from a jumbled mass of neurons and synapses? After all, these may be enormously complex, but we are still talking about a wet bag of molecules and electrical impulses.

Some scientists suspect that quantum processes, including entanglement, might help us explain the brain’s enormous power, and its ability to generate consciousness. Recently, scientists at Trinity College Dublin, using a technique to test for quantum gravity, suggested that entanglement may be at work within our brains. If their results are confirmed, they could be a big step toward understanding how our brain, including consciousness, works.

https://bigthink.com/hard-science/brain ... anglement/