Gatekeeping.

[origami_itto]

How do you respond to new interest in the art?


vampirespologist Follow
my advice to you is to never waste your time trying to fit into a cluts or hobby or any community who makes you beg for acceptance and approval just to participate when you could do the alternative-get involved in a niche and endangered hobby run primarily by old people.
wanted to learn how to hunt ruffed grouse and train bird dogs so I sent an email to my local chapter of the ruffed grouse society explaining that getting into wildlife groups is intimidating to me because I'm trans
and all they saw was that someone under 60 wanted to learn to hunt grouse & several months into my mentorship I was told that like 7 ald guys argued over me until they had to pick a number between 1 and 100 to decide who got to personally mentor me.
Imagine vying for the acceptance of some gatekeeping weirdos when your mere interest could be inciting verbal combat among retirees

vampirespologist
my mentor was so sweet & funny too, he suggested we meet over lunch first so he could tell me about what to expect before we got started &1 emailed back "I'm ready to get started right away!"
and he said "I was actually suggesting lunch first for your comfort on the assumption you wouldn't want to get together with a man you've never met, in the woods with a gun."
Like, I trusted him because of the referrals I got from one of my professors but like, right you are sir fair enough. Lunch it is..

vampirespologist
#you're right, murderers can't have lunch
exactly

cheptail Fo
This is exactly what happened when I got in touch with the local amateur radio operators club. Apparently, after I called the head of the club and he told the group, this organized squadron of old men immediately began squabbling over who got to give me books and resources to get me started. I found out later they maintain a schedule of when they can give me stuff or offer to help me so that I don't get overwhelmed with wiry old fellas in beat up trucks offering to haul junk off my backyard/fix the deck/build me a shed. I gained like 14 honorary grandpappys in one swoop.
Ditch anyone gate keeping. Find a couple of spry old coots doing something cool

spockiedog Ah
I started curing (the sport, me NOT a sportzer) and I only play in the newbie league full of new curlers and those who want to teach, and the mostly retired ppl league on a weekday afternoon.
THE MOST SUPPORTIVE PEOPLE. Every time Im
hard on myself for not making a shot, one older
man in particular will come my way, point out an
experienced player and say "He's been missing
shots for thirty years. Youre doing great.
#life

[Doc Stier]

Gatekeeping in virtually all traditional Chinese kungfu styles has always been considered necessary in order to preserve the essential integrity of the proprietary training methods and practice material of the standard curriculum. This helps prevent dilution and broad modification of the basic style or system.

This concept is often difficult to understand for people who have no long-term allegiance with any particular style or teacher. They view curriculum training material from any and all sources as a mere commodity to be purchased and thereafter mixed and blended to create their own customized training regimen. Preserving a full transmission of the composite sources isn't an agenda priority for them.

As one of my grandfathers used to say..."you won't always get what you pay for, but you'll always pay for what you get nonetheless."

[GrahamB]

Ah, the old days... now we call them 'the times before Avocado toast'...

[origami_itto]

Ah, the old days... now we call them 'the times before Avocado toast'...

What's the significance of avocado toast?

[origami_itto]

Gatekeeping in virtually all traditional Chinese kungfu styles has always been considered necessary in order to preserve the essential integrity of the proprietary training methods and practice material of the standard curriculum. This helps prevent dilution and broad modification of the basic style or system.

Well it doesn't appear to have helped anything, judging by the current state of things.

[Steve James]

There's nothing wrong with the current state of things, when it comes to gatekeeping. What's the gate to anyway? Traditionally, learning a ma meant becoming part of a family, with responsibilities. Money exchange might be involved, but wasn't the point, just an obligation to the founder and school. Nowadays, money is often seen as the key to unlock the gate. But, I'm not sure that's what you're complaining about. Maybe you're talking about gatekeepers of information. There are always good reasons to withhold certain information. For ex., don't teach anything potentially lethal to people with bad characters.

I agree that almost everyone talks about how shit tcc is nowadays -aopt to 60 years ago before they were born, let alone in the 18th century. Everybody talks about it but who does anything about it. Who contributes what to make the situation better? Why criticize those who are trying?

Hey, fwiw, it's the internet. Negativity and contradiction gets the most attention. Take for example the most popular tcc YouTube 'influencers.' It's either for ego or commercial gain, so don't take it personally.

[origami_itto]

I'm not complaining per se just observing.

I know despite my best intentions I rub some people wrong, oh well. I used to get my ass kicked for "using big words". It goes with neurodivergence. People suck.

I'm more talking about in the broader context of how we approach newcomers to the art and how the community presents itself outside of our cliques. YMCA yoga ladies are the gold standard for Tai Chi in most people's estimation.

As far as martial applicability goes, I think I've seen four videos in as many days of people saying "Hey guys, yeah, tai chi really is a martial art. No I don't have any proof of it actually being used as such, but trust me, bruh."

Does it matter? Do we want hordes of fighters beating down the doors of our schools? Probably not.

Would be nice to have a larger market than the elderly and weirdoes like me.

The push hands community IS growing, I saw it in Texas, I'm seeing it here in Florida, there is definitely more interest in exploring push hands as a sort of melting pot of the various CMA (and beyond) influences.

I know for some people it's a sacred tradition steeped in responsibility and commitment, yeah, and I, unfortunately, lack any sort of connection to anything like that realistically.

For a few years now I've seen the push hands part of the practice to be more like pick up basketball. Something to keep me active and involved in community as I start getting into the danger zone, when all the men I've known all my life started dropping like flies either through external causes, poor health, or suicide.

45-70 is a very dangerous time for men. Things we've worked for turn out to be less worth while, or evaporate, relationships deteriorate, health and financial woes accumulate. That old line about "nobody on their deathbed ever wishes they worked more overtime", "the only people that remember you worked weekends is your family", etc .

I dunno, I'm rambling. I'm all about inclusion, not exclusion, so y'all send me your undersirables.

[Bob]

For better or worse attempted quality control - current quality control movement in healthcare fitness centers for Tai Chi and other martial arts is the demand for certification tied to a facility's need for liability insurance

[Doc Stier]

The general state of things everywhere in the TCC world today is in fact due in great part to the primary Gatekeepers in every traditional style or system doing an excellent job thus far. Most whom I have known usually refuse to teach people of poor character, who clearly wish to learn for negative reasons. They also weed out the form collectors, who only wish to cherry pick their curriculum and then share what they were taught with other schools or other practitioners outside the teacher's group.

As a result, many TCC practitioners today are oftentimes either primarily self-taught from books and videos, or they practice a very small transmission of various styles acquired in seminars and workshops or during their short tenure as a student. The vast majority of such students develop little or no internal cultivation or martial skill no matter how long they practice their Heinz 57 conglomeration of styles and methods.

A small investment of time and effort generally produces a small outcome. They don't look very skilled because they aren't. No big surprise there.

[GrahamB]

To some avocado toast is a symbol of everything wrong with the world.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/foo ... llionaire/

[origami_itto]

To some avocado toast is a symbol of everything wrong with the world.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/foo ... llionaire/

I think maybe this might be more of the problem.

[Steve James]

I agree that there's no problem with the true lineal gatekeepers of the various tcc systems. If someone can find one who's willing to teach, they'll be fine, especially if they continue to practice diligently for many years. If course, there's a lot of disagreement on the system and teacher.

Anyway, what about the 95% of people who aren't or won't have that opportunity or incentive? It doesn't affect the lineage holders or their students. The question is whether "tcc" is beneficial even if someone does what 95% says is wrong. I think it is, but isn't the standard to say the art is doing well or not. If it's working for what the person wants, it's none of my business to tell them they should be doing something else (or what "I" do).

[everything]

The “wrong” 99% of taijiquan is super beneficial to countless people as shown in many studies.

For the “right” 1%, seems like most people here claim they found “it”.

So … no problem?

[origami_itto]

The question is whether "tcc" is beneficial even if someone does what 95% says is wrong.

Ask not what Taijiquan can do for you, ask what you can do for Taijiquan.

For the “right” 1%, seems like most people here claim they found “it”.

But they can't explain or describe it meaningfully, or agree amongst themselves about any particulars...



Love Dogs (by Rumi)

One night a man was crying,
“Allah, Allah!”
His lips grew sweet with the praising,
until a cynic said,
“So! I have heard you
calling out, but have you ever
gotten any response?”
The man had no answer for that.
He quit praying and fell into a confused sleep.
He dreamed he saw Khidr, the guide of souls,
in a thick, green foliage,
“Why did you stop praising?”
“Because I’ve never heard anything back.”
“This longing you express
is the return message.”
The grief you cry out from
draws you toward union.
Your pure sadness that wants help
is the secret cup.
Listen to the moan of a dog for its master.
That whining is the connection.
There are love dogs no one knows the names of.
Give your life to be one of them.

[everything]

I think they explain but it’s too hard to understand when we don’t “get it” yet.

For example if someone says “sink Qi”, people invent countless garbage.

The avocado thing seems to be some idiot said Millennials buy too many avocados and hence cannot afford housing. “Ok Boomer”.