Buddha Boy?

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Re: Buddha Boy?

Postby Doc Stier on Sat May 16, 2009 6:03 pm

Chris Fleming wrote:"...fasting is an interesting subject within the Bible, and like many things therein, often misunderstood. I understand that there are different traditions of man which may have fasting as an element of their practice, but within the Bible it shows that fasting was not to be a purposeful act. Rather, a person would become so burdened to pray to God for someone or about a situation that they couldn't eat. That is, the person was so desperately seeking God that no time was taken to stop and eat. This is completely different from a person who forcibly decides to do a certain fast for a set amount of time or something like that.

Chris:

I have to disagree with these comments. There are numerous examples in the Holy Bible of fasting deliberately done as a "purposeful act". Moses chose to fast for forty days and forty nights on two different occasions (Ex.24:18; 34:28; Dt.9:9,18), and Elijah also fasted for forty days and forty nights (1 Ki.19:8). Additionally, David purposely fasted in repentance for his sin with Bath-sheba (Sam.12:16-17). See also Zech.8:19.

Christ purposely fasted for forty days as well (Mt.4:2). Furthermore, prayer with fasting was one of the criteria for ordaining elders in every church from the earliest days of the Faith (Acts.14:23), and has remained so within Eastern Orthodox Christianity to this day, along with three separate Lenten Fast periods throughout each year.

And lastly, St. Paul mentions prayer and fasting in his advice to married couples (1 Cor.7:5). There are other biblical references as well, but these should suffice to indicate that prayer and fasting were clearly done in both the Old and New Testament in a deliberate manner as a purposeful spiritual practice.

Doc
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Re: Buddha Boy?

Postby Chris Fleming on Sat May 16, 2009 8:08 pm

Sifu Stier,

I believe we are actually talking about the same thing. The occasions you mention in the Old Testament were done with God's leading. Moses didn't just decide that today he was going to be religious and undertake some kind of fast for 40 days. No, he was in the presence of God, speaking face to face. As for the other examples in the OT, again we see the example of prayer for a particular situation, a desperate seeking of God in which things such as food were no longer in the picture--again, worlds different than religious attempts at this or that.

As for the NT, again here Christ didn't just decide that He would undertake a religious ritual. Taking His position as the Son of Man, he was lead by the Spirit to directly attack the enemy in the wilderness, face his temptations and defeat them.

I don't see any mention of fasting in 1 Cor 7:5, only a time for prayer. That's the only thing I disagree with, but this is a minor point to begin with.

So yes, I agree that fasting was definitely a deliberate and purposeful matter, just not in the contrived *religious* way. I am allergy to *religious*.
Chris Fleming

 

Re: Buddha Boy?

Postby Doc Stier on Sun May 17, 2009 6:22 am

Chris Fleming wrote:I don't see any mention of fasting in 1 Cor 7:5, only a time for prayer.

I don't know what translation of the Holy Bible you're using , but all of my translations read like this example: "Therefore, do not deprive one another except when both of you consent to do so, especially when you devote yourselves to fasting and prayer; and then come together again, so that Satan may not tempt you because of your physical passion." 1 Cor.7:5

Additionally, I don't understand your thinking when you refer to fasting "in the contrived *religious* way". Christian religious fasting has been a "deliberate and purposeful" spiritual practice from the earliest days of the Apostolic era. There is nothing "contrived" about it whatsoever. :-\

Orthodox Christians, for example, freely engage in fasting and prayer together throughout the year for the sake of calming the mind, subduing the physical passions, cleansing the body, and purifying the soul. :P

http://www.stjohndc.org/Russian/homilies/e_9606t.htm

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Last edited by Doc Stier on Sun May 17, 2009 6:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Buddha Boy?

Postby Chris Fleming on Sun May 17, 2009 7:21 am

Just for fun I took a look at the various Bibles that I have around to check that verse. The New Oxford Annotated Bible, the New American Standard, the Recovery Version, the Williams translation and the Beck translation do not have "to fasting" added with "and prayer", but the King James and the New King James Bible does have "to fasting and prayer". Again, a minor point.

When I say fasting can be contrived, I mean just that. Just like people can pray or do "good works" in a contrived way. The gospels talk about this, when the Lord mentions that we should not be like the Pharisees of those times who make a big display out of their fasting and giving alms to get glory and status from man. Rather He says it should be a private thing, and the Father who is in the heavens will reward you. The Pharisees were the religionists of those times, who believed they were serving God with all they did. In reality, as we can read, they became very corrupt in their religiosity and actions toward their fellow man. Unfortunately, there are many Christians in this very same predicament today. All I'm saying is that when we attempt "spiritual" or "religious" acts, do we have the leading of the Lord or we do not. Again, dependence on God, not rebellious independence, even in the "good" things we do.
Chris Fleming

 

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