unrest in iran

Rum, beer, movies, nice websites, gaming, etc., without interrupting the flow of martial threads.

unrest in iran

Postby nianfong on Tue Jun 23, 2009 3:34 pm

yeah we haven't talked about it yet. I support the protesters, but, officially our gov really shouldn't do anything about it unless specifically asked to by the iranian people somehow.

ron paul is backing up obama's measured, reserved approach to this, unlike the other congressmen... and you all know I prefer obama to ron paul. but ron paul makes many intelligent, cogent statements, like this one.
http://www.lewrockwell.com/paul/paul541.html
Statement before the US House of Representatives opposing resolution on Iran, June 19, 2009

I rise in reluctant opposition to H Res 560, which condemns the Iranian government for its recent actions during the unrest in that country. While I never condone violence, much less the violence that governments are only too willing to mete out to their own citizens, I am always very cautious about “condemning” the actions of governments overseas. As an elected member of the United States House of Representatives, I have always questioned our constitutional authority to sit in judgment of the actions of foreign governments of which we are not representatives. I have always hesitated when my colleagues rush to pronounce final judgment on events thousands of miles away about which we know very little. And we know very little beyond limited press reports about what is happening in Iran.

Of course I do not support attempts by foreign governments to suppress the democratic aspirations of their people, but when is the last time we condemned Saudi Arabia or Egypt or the many other countries where unlike in Iran there is no opportunity to exercise any substantial vote on political leadership? It seems our criticism is selective and applied when there are political points to be made. I have admired President Obama’s cautious approach to the situation in Iran and I would have preferred that we in the House had acted similarly.

I adhere to the foreign policy of our Founders, who advised that we not interfere in the internal affairs of countries overseas. I believe that is the best policy for the United States, for our national security and for our prosperity. I urge my colleagues to reject this and all similar meddling resolutions.
User avatar
nianfong
Administrator
 
Posts: 4448
Joined: Wed Apr 23, 2008 10:28 am
Location: SF Bay Area

Re: unrest in iran

Postby Dmitri on Tue Jun 23, 2009 5:19 pm

Damn, Obama is doing SOMETHING right... :)

Yeah, for me Ron Paul's foreign policy was one of the biggest points of support and agreement, when he was running for president.

If only Obama would listen to him on some other points, like the bailout... :-X
User avatar
Dmitri
Great Old One
 
Posts: 9736
Joined: Fri May 02, 2008 1:04 pm
Location: Atlanta, GA (USA)

Re: unrest in iran

Postby Chanchu on Tue Jun 23, 2009 5:22 pm

Ron Paul is right & if they don't stop they will be caught put in a gulag and/or killed no arms no means to resist..

Really feel sorry for them suffering under the fundamentalists.. can't imagine having to live in a place like that....

like jerry farwell is the fracking king or something only worse...
Last edited by Chanchu on Tue Jun 23, 2009 5:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Chanchu
Great Old One
 
Posts: 1270
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 9:09 pm

Re: unrest in iran

Postby bigphatwong on Tue Jun 23, 2009 5:32 pm

Videos and pics from the protests.....

http://www.youtube.com/user/citizentube

http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/2009/06/irans_disputed_election.html

Absolutely horrible. Here's hoping they get to the bottom of this very soon.
NOBODY gets near Yung when Tanaka's around. That's for shit sure.
User avatar
bigphatwong
Great Old One
 
Posts: 763
Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 1:10 am
Location: 818

Re: unrest in iran

Postby everything on Tue Jun 23, 2009 5:41 pm

I've been glued to #iranelection on twitter. terrible. Personally I condemn the violence, but for the b.s. politics, I support the POTUS and Ron Paul's measured approach on this one, too.
amateur practices til gets right pro til can't get wrong
/ better approx answer to right q than exact answer to wrong q which can be made precise /
“most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. Source of all true art & science
User avatar
everything
Wuji
 
Posts: 8262
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 7:22 pm
Location: USA

Re: unrest in iran

Postby Darth Rock&Roll on Wed Jun 24, 2009 7:30 am

iran seems to be polarized.

mind you, the whole world seems to be polarized.

unfortunately, a lot of people don't understand that a democracy is not supposed to be a dictatorship of the majority.

39.9% of the vote went to the opposition, but that doesn't mean that they shouldn't have a voice in their government.

I think it's sad when any government resorts to gunning down it's own citizens. When the US does it or Iran, it's bad and it's indicative of the fundamental concept of democracy not being present.
Last edited by Darth Rock&Roll on Wed Jun 24, 2009 7:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
Coconuts. Bananas. Mangos. Rice. Beans. Water. It's good.
User avatar
Darth Rock&Roll
Great Old One
 
Posts: 7054
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 4:42 am
Location: Canada

Re: unrest in iran

Postby yusuf on Wed Jun 24, 2009 7:45 am

The main problem is that the Ayatollahs don't want democracy in Iran, because of the austere nature of Islam they are proselytising. There is definitely a whoe taker full of fishiness about the result, and the dissidents inside Iran should be actively helped and supported.

I cannot say the same about those outside Iran. Just remember what Chalabi did in Iraq and you will get an idea about what these Iranian groups in London, Paris and Washington are after.

Ahmed Abdel Hadi Chalabi[1] (Arabic: أحمد الجلبي‎) (born October 30, 1944) was interim oil minister in Iraq[2] in April-May 2005 and December-January 2006 and deputy prime minister from May 2005 until May 2006. Chalabi failed to win a seat in parliament in the December 2005 elections, and when the new Iraqi cabinet was announced in May 2006, he was not awarded a post. Once dubbed the "George Washington of Iraq"[3] he has fallen out of favor and is currently under investigation by several U.S. government sources.


...

Chalabi is a controversial figure for many reasons. In the lead-up to the 2003 invasion of Iraq, under his guidance the INC, with the assistance of lobbying powerhouse BKSH & Associates,[4] provided a major portion of the information on which U.S. Intelligence based its condemnation of Saddam Hussein, including reports of weapons of mass destruction and alleged ties to al-Qaeda. Nearly all, if not all, of this information has turned out to be of questionable accuracy. That, combined with the fact that Chalabi subsequently boasted about the impact that their alleged falsifications in an interview with the British Sunday Telegraph, led to a falling out between him and the United States.




yusuf
[Seeking and not seeking are the problem...]
lol, there really isn't a problem at all
User avatar
yusuf
Great Old One
 
Posts: 3242
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 12:27 pm
Location: Londinium

Re: unrest in iran

Postby nianfong on Wed Jun 24, 2009 9:31 am

Darth Rock&Roll wrote:39.9% of the vote went to the opposition, but that doesn't mean that they shouldn't have a voice in their government.


this is an unknown fact. the whole purpose of the protests is to get a recount.
User avatar
nianfong
Administrator
 
Posts: 4448
Joined: Wed Apr 23, 2008 10:28 am
Location: SF Bay Area

Re: unrest in iran

Postby Darth Rock&Roll on Wed Jun 24, 2009 9:41 am

nianfong wrote:
Darth Rock&Roll wrote:39.9% of the vote went to the opposition, but that doesn't mean that they shouldn't have a voice in their government.


this is an unknown fact. the whole purpose of the protests is to get a recount.

maybe so, but it was the number given.

I don't think i need to remind anyone that there is still a lot of strong opinion and suspicion that George W Bush stole the presidency from Al Gore in 2000 and from Kerry in 2004.

People protested, people took to the streets, people egged bush at his inauguration day!

he still sat his two terms and got the US into a wrong war on lies and deceit.

I don't think that the pot should be calling the kettle black and so obama and the us is wise in keeping quiet about this. let iran work it's own shit out. if they can't do it on their own, they simply can't do it period.
Coconuts. Bananas. Mangos. Rice. Beans. Water. It's good.
User avatar
Darth Rock&Roll
Great Old One
 
Posts: 7054
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 4:42 am
Location: Canada

Re: unrest in iran

Postby Doc Stier on Wed Jun 24, 2009 10:19 am

Darth Rock&Roll wrote:"...let iran work it's own shit out. if they can't do it on their own, they simply can't do it period."

Yeah, right! ::)

Sort of like this unfortunate circumstance, eh? :-\

Image
Image
"First in the Mind and then in the Body."
User avatar
Doc Stier
Great Old One
 
Posts: 5695
Joined: Sat Jul 19, 2008 8:04 pm
Location: Woodcreek, TX

Re: unrest in iran

Postby nianfong on Wed Jun 24, 2009 10:45 am

except in iran's case, even the guardian council said there were irregularities, including 3 miliion EXTRA votes in tehran, and the challenger even lost in his own hometown, where he has strong support by all accounts. Plus he lost at a 65-35% ratio in EVERY voting region. the homogeneity of that result is unheard of.
User avatar
nianfong
Administrator
 
Posts: 4448
Joined: Wed Apr 23, 2008 10:28 am
Location: SF Bay Area

Re: unrest in iran

Postby Doc Stier on Wed Jun 24, 2009 10:57 am

nianfong wrote:except in iran's case, even the guardian council said there were irregularities, including 3 miliion EXTRA votes in tehran, and the challenger even lost in his own hometown, where he has strong support by all accounts. Plus he lost at a 65-35% ratio in EVERY voting region. the homogeneity of that result is unheard of.

You totally missed my point. Forget about the election results! Both candidates suck. :-\

I was suggesting a bit of empathy and compassion for the people in the streets! ::)
Last edited by Doc Stier on Wed Jun 24, 2009 10:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
"First in the Mind and then in the Body."
User avatar
Doc Stier
Great Old One
 
Posts: 5695
Joined: Sat Jul 19, 2008 8:04 pm
Location: Woodcreek, TX

Re: unrest in iran

Postby nianfong on Wed Jun 24, 2009 11:06 am

I was responding to darth rocknroll up there, doc ;)
and I support the protesters, in pretty much every way.
User avatar
nianfong
Administrator
 
Posts: 4448
Joined: Wed Apr 23, 2008 10:28 am
Location: SF Bay Area

Re: unrest in iran

Postby Doc Stier on Wed Jun 24, 2009 11:20 am

nianfong wrote:I support the protesters, in pretty much every way.

Right on, man. Me, too. 8-)
"First in the Mind and then in the Body."
User avatar
Doc Stier
Great Old One
 
Posts: 5695
Joined: Sat Jul 19, 2008 8:04 pm
Location: Woodcreek, TX

Re: unrest in iran

Postby mrtoes on Wed Jun 24, 2009 11:23 am

Iranian people are awesome. It amazed me when I was out there how willing they were to criticise their government (in Syria you would never hear such a thing). They are also deeply frustrated with the lack of freedom, and it is amazing that they are willing to battle against such repression.

I was sceptical at first that the election had been truely rigged, but after reading a few statistical analyses of the results, I have no doubt.

BTW I thought it was awesome that Obama stayed out of it for so long. If only Gordon Brown had shut his mouth as well. You probably didn't know that it is a surprisingly common viewpoint in Iran that Britain is behind their problems - including even being behind the Islamic Revolution! An amazing conspiracy theory but it goes back to the days of Imperial interference, and of course the CIA coup in the 50s. One Iranian told me a joke: "If you look behind the hijab, you will see 'Made in Great Britain'". Which is why the government has tried to blame Britain even above the US for the current troubles.

Anyway, enough. The Guardian newspaper has an excellent running blog which summarises the mess of Twitter/Youtube feeds:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/blog

Matthew.
mrtoes
Wuji
 
Posts: 1351
Joined: Thu Jun 05, 2008 5:06 am
Location: Central America

Next

Return to Off the Topic

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 13 guests