Do you have health insurance? How much do you pay?

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Re: Do you have health insurance? How much do you pay?

Postby Michael on Mon Jun 29, 2009 4:32 pm

johnwang wrote:You can't walk into a group of
- millionaire and talke about "universal healthcare".

Oh, yes you can! Recently, the so-called richest Americans (they aren't really the richest, but they carry the mantle for the public consumption): Bill Gates, Oprah Winfrey, Warren Buffet, Ted Turner, George Soros, Michael Bloomberg, etc., met at a Rockefeller confab to discuss global population problems. All of these rich people do promote universal healthcare and they call it eugenics (not 100% sure on Winfrey) and they dispense it in the form of abortions disproportionately going to blacks. There is a clearly identifiable reason why healthcare has become so poor in the USA and it coincides with a worldwide depopulation agenda and the Rockefeller Foundation's takeover of medical training beginning in the early part of the 20th century. The Rockefellers are well-known Malthusian/Social Darwin/Eugenics supporters going back to the 19th century.

Billionaire club in bid to curb overpopulation
Some of America’s leading billionaires have met secretly to consider how their wealth could be used to slow the growth of the world’s population and speed up improvements in health and education.

Secret Billionaire's Club Seek Population Control
Taking their cue from Gates, the report said, they agreed population control was the No. 1 issue.

Bill Gates' father used to be the head of Planned Parenthood, and is still on their board. Bill Gates has given huge amounts of money, as has Warren Buffet, to Planned Parenthood, which is a eugenics organization created by Margaret Sanger. She gave and received awards to and from Hitler for their mutual work in exterminating undesirables like blacks and those people who don't "measure up". Sanger described blacks as "weeds that need to be exterminated."
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Re: Do you have health insurance? How much do you pay?

Postby Teazer on Mon Jun 29, 2009 5:55 pm

Michael wrote: Bill Gates has given huge amounts of money, as has Warren Buffet, to Planned Parenthood, which is a eugenics organization created by Margaret Sanger. She gave and received awards to and from Hitler for their mutual work in exterminating undesirables like blacks and those people who don't "measure up".

Bit of a stretch there Michael, don't you think?
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Re: Do you have health insurance? How much do you pay?

Postby Michael on Mon Jun 29, 2009 6:06 pm

Steve and I discussed that before in this thread.
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Re: Do you have health insurance? How much do you pay?

Postby qiphlow on Mon Jun 29, 2009 6:45 pm

Steve James wrote:This is confusing. Many people in the states do not have health coverage. This only becomes a problem when they or a family member needs medical care, and only if they can't afford it. So, the core of the issue is what should happen to those people (i.e., ill but cannot afford to pay).

If that is considered a problem, then someone will have to pay for the solution. Unfortunately, no one wants to pay for someone else's disease. Obviously, healthy people don't see why they should pay for medical insurance. Doctors don't think they should give away their skills for free. However, no one wants to increase taxes to improve public health care or hospitals. Employers complain about the cost of providing insurance; employees complain about their lack of coverage.

Essentially, this is a conflict between people and money; and almost everybody's greedy. Anyway, one solution is to "stay well" -- as long as you can.


i have this feeling that we as a nation have plenty of money to pay for great healthcare for every citizen in the USA. i have another feeling that we don't do it because of the huge amount of funds that get diverted to pet projects for individual congresspeople and stuff. it's sad, really. we could do so much for ourselves if we started valuing people more than profits.
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Re: Do you have health insurance? How much do you pay?

Postby Michael on Mon Jun 29, 2009 7:21 pm

We spend more per capita than any other country and have some of the worst health care for the average Joe. The main reason is that there is more profit in health care for sick people than healthy ones, so even though you'd think the insurance firms and doctors would have a vested interest in prevention measures, we have none to speak of. All while the pharmaceutical giants produce "medicine" that primarily has the effect of requiring the patient to take more and more of it for their entire lives, as well as additional "medicine" to alleviate the side-effects of the first batch of pills. The doctors are trained to dispense the pills and their malpractice insurance tells them to pressure their patients to take more and more to lower the doctor's insurance risk, but the docs lie and tell us it's for our health. ::) :o
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Re: Do you have health insurance? How much do you pay?

Postby internalenthusiast on Mon Jun 29, 2009 8:10 pm

this is a tiny bit off topic (but not completely), but i wonder if your perception is the same as mine, michael. both times i was in china i caught a cold (exhaustion/overwork), and had someone get me local medicine. (little black and little green pills, don't ask me what they were.) in both instances the pills, which were very cheap (couple bucks total), cleared the thing up in a day or two. american "cold medicine" never worked that way for me, and costs a lot more. i think i would have had that cold for a week at least, maybe two, in the US.

have you had a similar experience? it made me wonder about some of our "chemical" medicine here, as opposed to the "herbal" (i think) stuff in china, which at least in those instances seemed to work so well. my host in china, who's american, said he has the same experience.

have other people had a similar experience?
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Re: Do you have health insurance? How much do you pay?

Postby meeks on Mon Jun 29, 2009 8:30 pm

my mom had cancer in the early 90s, living in the USA. They had a farm, breeding birds and selling their offspring, for many years. They had to sell off the whole lot of them - almost 500 birds, averaging 800-1000$ each. Left both of them jobless and almost too old to employ. My mom had to go back to a 'career college' so she could get receptionist work at a small clinic. Don't kid yourself that you 'save money' by not getting any - it's russian roulette with more bullets than empty chambers.
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Re: Do you have health insurance? How much do you pay?

Postby Michael on Mon Jun 29, 2009 10:26 pm

I'm a big fan of Oriental Medicine, but I have not been to see any kind of doctor since coming to China four years ago.
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Re: Do you have health insurance? How much do you pay?

Postby internalenthusiast on Mon Jun 29, 2009 11:12 pm

thanks for your thoughts and complete answer, michael. yeah, i don't get sick much either usually. maybe a cold every year or two. i haven't missed a day of work for illness since 1992. and do think qi gong helps, definitely. but i think it was the flights, lack of sleep, and the 14 hours a day work schedule. and perhaps not having resistance to a local bug. it was a great time though.

fwiw, the medicine was bought at a pharmacy, over the counter. i wouldn't know what to ask for though. but it was very cheap, and worked. two different kinds at once, both pills. i was told to take them in combination. as i remember it was 15 yuan or so. maybe 25. something like that.

i've been given herbs and cooked them a few times here in the US, but these were fast/convenient under the circumstances. and worked.
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Re: Do you have health insurance? How much do you pay?

Postby ashe on Tue Jun 30, 2009 12:19 am

I pay nothing for my insurance (for now) as it's through the teamsters union. Its pretty bitchin' for catastrophic stuff. I have a million in coverage for my family over a lifetime. But it generally sucks for anything less.

I pay 15 bucks a year for dental but I have to go to the union dentist. The doc I see is pretty good but I've heard horror stories about the others.

Vision sucks too. Only covers 100 bucks for frames every two years and 1 pair of glass lenses yearly. I always pay at least $100 out of pocket for my glasses since I need plastic lenses and glare reduction to help night driving due to an astigmatism.

The real bitch is there's NO preventive care covered, so no birth control, no check ups for the kids, etc.
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Re: Do you have health insurance? How much do you pay?

Postby Michael on Tue Jun 30, 2009 5:54 am

Why would anyone want prevention, Ashe? I mean, what are you thinking? The reason is that prevention keeps you healthy and you're not supposed to be healthy, you're supposed to be dependent on the system.

Sorry to hear about your dad's hernias. Drag.
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Re: Do you have health insurance? How much do you pay?

Postby Peacedog on Wed Jul 01, 2009 4:08 pm

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Re: Do you have health insurance? How much do you pay?

Postby meeks on Wed Jul 01, 2009 7:41 pm

Canada's system works, because if things are really bad you can come to the US for treatment. Currently the waiting time to deliver a baby in Canada is 10 months. If you want a single MRI expect to wait from 6 to 18 months. Any number of clinics here in the US can do it right now if you pay for it. The only time a woman in the US doesn't deliver a baby in a hospital is if she fails to make it to the hospital in time or if she chooses not to.


current waiting time to deliver a baby is 10 months, while incubation is 9? WTF is that? We walked into the hospital in labor, got admitted and delivered the next morning. Every person I've ever met was admitted right away - you're visiting a fallacy site for your data.
I needed an MRI for my heartburn examination about 6 weeks ago - They booked me in 3 days from my doctor visit, right at the hospital up the street from my home. The longest I know anyone waiting is 6 weeks because it was extremely minor. I don't know where you get your info from, but it's not just incorrect - it's fukt. But that was a nice try - I assume you're arguing in favor of keeping medical coverage private...
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Re: Do you have health insurance? How much do you pay?

Postby everything on Wed Jul 01, 2009 8:16 pm

front page story on WSJ today was that Walmart is now in favor of requiring large employers to pay for health insurance for employees. This is not due to some kind of do-good but in order to keep the playing field level and costs down. As the largest private employer in the US (2.1 million employees) and largest retailer in the world, it does give some momentum to this reform.
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Re: Do you have health insurance? How much do you pay?

Postby Peacedog on Thu Jul 02, 2009 8:10 am

The waiting times vary by province. Ottowa was the shortest at 6 weeks on average. Saskatchewan's the longest at 22 months. The link below is about MRI times in Saskatchewan. The article is a little dated, but points out the underlying issue that care is both rationed and not as comprehensive as it is in a setting with private insurance.

I can walk in and get an MRI without an appointment anytime I want in upstate Maryland here in the US.In fact I did just that about six months ago when my chiropractor was having trouble figuring out some back pain problems I was having. He was able to fix the problem almost immediately afterwards. In a nationalized system I would never have gotten the MRI as the state run system would not have authorized the MRI. It would have been cheaper to keep me on anti-inflamitories. Never mind the long term probles that causes. FYI, it cost me $428 USD.

I'll try to find the article on timelines for delivery services for newborns.

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http://www.cmaj.ca/cgi/content/full/170/5/776-a
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