The Most Violent Country?

[Steve James]

Frankly, thieves tend to be much more careful about who they rob and when here in the US. Home invasions largely don't happen in the US for all of these reasons as well.

Whatever the reasons for or behind the statistics, if "violent crimes" are less frequent per 100,000 in the US, it's not because thieves are more careful. Thieves don't know where the guns are or aren't, and they can as easily arm themselves. But, that's just trusting the statistics as given. Here are some on murders per capita.

Crime Statistics > Murders (per capita) (most recent) by country VIEW DATA: Totals Per capita
Definition Source Printable version

Showing latest available data. Rank Countries Amount

# 1 Colombia: 0.617847 per 1,000 people
# 2 South Africa: 0.496008 per 1,000 people
# 3 Jamaica: 0.324196 per 1,000 people
# 4 Venezuela: 0.316138 per 1,000 people
# 5 Russia: 0.201534 per 1,000 people
# 6 Mexico: 0.130213 per 1,000 people
# 7 Estonia: 0.107277 per 1,000 people
# 8 Latvia: 0.10393 per 1,000 people
# 9 Lithuania: 0.102863 per 1,000 people
# 10 Belarus: 0.0983495 per 1,000 people
# 11 Ukraine: 0.094006 per 1,000 people
# 12 Papua New Guinea: 0.0838593 per 1,000 people
# 13 Kyrgyzstan: 0.0802565 per 1,000 people
# 14 Thailand: 0.0800798 per 1,000 people
# 15 Moldova: 0.0781145 per 1,000 people
# 16 Zimbabwe: 0.0749938 per 1,000 people
# 17 Seychelles: 0.0739025 per 1,000 people
# 18 Zambia: 0.070769 per 1,000 people
# 19 Costa Rica: 0.061006 per 1,000 people
# 20 Poland: 0.0562789 per 1,000 people
# 21 Georgia: 0.0511011 per 1,000 people
# 22 Uruguay: 0.045082 per 1,000 people
# 23 Bulgaria: 0.0445638 per 1,000 people
# 24 United States: 0.042802 per 1,000 people
# 25 Armenia: 0.0425746 per 1,000 people
# 26 India: 0.0344083 per 1,000 people
# 27 Yemen: 0.0336276 per 1,000 people
# 28 Dominica: 0.0289733 per 1,000 people
# 29 Azerbaijan: 0.0285642 per 1,000 people
# 30 Finland: 0.0283362 per 1,000 people
# 31 Slovakia: 0.0263303 per 1,000 people
# 32 Romania: 0.0250784 per 1,000 people
# 33 Portugal: 0.0233769 per 1,000 people
# 34 Malaysia: 0.0230034 per 1,000 people
# 35 Macedonia, The Former Yugoslav Republic of: 0.0229829 per 1,000 people
# 36 Mauritius: 0.021121 per 1,000 people
# 37 Hungary: 0.0204857 per 1,000 people
# 38 Korea, South: 0.0196336 per 1,000 people
# 39 Slovenia: 0.0179015 per 1,000 people
# 40 France: 0.0173272 per 1,000 people
# 41 Czech Republic: 0.0169905 per 1,000 people
# 42 Iceland: 0.0168499 per 1,000 people
# 43 Australia: 0.0150324 per 1,000 people
# 44 Canada: 0.0149063 per 1,000 people
# 45 Chile: 0.014705 per 1,000 people
# 46 United Kingdom: 0.0140633 per 1,000 people
# 47 Italy: 0.0128393 per 1,000 people
# 48 Spain: 0.0122456 per 1,000 people
# 49 Germany: 0.0116461 per 1,000 people
# 50 Tunisia: 0.0112159 per 1,000 people
# 51 Netherlands: 0.0111538 per 1,000 people
# 52 New Zealand: 0.0111524 per 1,000 people
# 53 Denmark: 0.0106775 per 1,000 people
# 54 Norway: 0.0106684 per 1,000 people
# 55 Ireland: 0.00946215 per 1,000 people
# 56 Switzerland: 0.00921351 per 1,000 people
# 57 Indonesia: 0.00910842 per 1,000 people
# 58 Greece: 0.0075928 per 1,000 people
# 59 Hong Kong: 0.00550804 per 1,000 people
# 60 Japan: 0.00499933 per 1,000 people
# 61 Saudi Arabia: 0.00397456 per 1,000 people
# 62 Qatar: 0.00115868 per 1,000 people

[Dr.Rob]

Who woulda thunk that Canada has a higher rate of violent crime per 100,000 persons than the US, ay? 935 to 466 . . . more than twice as high. Must be that Second Amendment at work down here.

Hey the Canadians finally beat us at something.

Dude we burnt the White House down...that's why they painted it

[bailewen]

lol.

That's what I figured. "Violent crime" is lower in the US but the murder rate is nearly triple the UK or Canada.

So in the US you are half as likely to get punched in the face but three times as likely to get put 6 feet under.

[Steve James]

Guns per 100 residents

1.United States 90.0 2007
2.Yemen 61.0 2007
3.Switzerland 46.0 2007
4.Iraq 39.0 2007
5.Serbia 37.5 2007
6.France 32.0 2007
7.Finland 32.0 2008
8.Canada 31.5 2007
9.Sweden 31.5 2007
10.Austria 31.0 2007
11.Germany 30.0 2007
12.New Zealand 26.8 1993
13.Saudi Arabia 26.3 2007
14.Greece 23.0 2007
15.Angola 20.5 2007
16.Thailand 16.0 2007
17.Australia 15.5 2007
18.Mexico 15.0 2007
19.South Africa 13.1 2007
20.Turkey 13.0 2007
21.Argentina 12.6 2007
22.Italy 12.1 2007
23.Pakistan 12.0 2007
24.Spain 11.0 2007
25.Russia 9.0 2007
26.Ukraine 9.0 2007
27.Brazil 8.8 2007
28.Colombia 7.2 2007
29.UK 5.6 2007
30.Iran 5.3 2007
31.Philippines 4.7 2007
32.India 4.0 2007
33.China 3.5 2007
34.Nigeria 1.0 2007

Murders per capita

1. Colombia: 0.617847 per 1,000
2 South Africa: 0.496008 per 1,000
3 Jamaica: 0.324196 per 1,000
4 Venezuela: 0.316138 per 1,000
5 Russia: 0.201534 per 1,000
6 Mexico: 0.130213 per 1,000
7 Estonia: 0.107277 per 1,000
8 Latvia: 0.10393 per 1,000
9 Lithuania: 0.102863 per 1,000
10 Belarus: 0.0983495 per 1,000
11 Ukraine: 0.094006 per 1,000
12 Papua New Guinea: 0.0838593 per 1,000
13 Kyrgyzstan: 0.0802565 per 1,000
14 Thailand: 0.0800798 per 1,000
15 Moldova: 0.0781145 per 1,000
16 Zimbabwe: 0.0749938 per 1,000
17 Seychelles: 0.0739025 per 1,000
18 Zambia: 0.070769 per 1,000
19 Costa Rica: 0.061006 per 1,000
20 Poland: 0.0562789 per 1,000
21 Georgia: 0.0511011 per 1,000
22 Uruguay: 0.045082 per 1,000
23 Bulgaria: 0.0445638 per 1,000
24 United States: 0.042802 per 1,000
25 Armenia: 0.0425746 per 1,000
26 India: 0.0344083 per 1,000
27 Yemen: 0.0336276 per 1,000
28 Dominica: 0.0289733 per 1,000
29 Azerbaijan: 0.0285642 per 1,000
30 Finland: 0.0283362 per 1,000
31 Slovakia: 0.0263303 per 1,000
32 Romania: 0.0250784 per 1,000
33 Portugal: 0.0233769 per 1,000
34 Malaysia: 0.0230034 per 1,000
35 Macedonia: 0.0229829 per 1,000
36 Mauritius: 0.021121 per 1,000
37 Hungary: 0.0204857 per 1,000
38 Korea, South: 0.0196336 per 1,000
39 Slovenia: 0.0179015 per 1,000
40 France: 0.0173272 per 1,000
41 Czech Republic: 0.0169905 per 1,000
42 Iceland: 0.0168499 per 1,000
43 Australia: 0.0150324 per 1,000
44 Canada: 0.0149063 per 1,000
45 Chile: 0.014705 per 1,000
46 United Kingdom: 0.0140633 per 1,000
47 Italy: 0.0128393 per 1,000
48 Spain: 0.0122456 per 1,000
49 Germany: 0.0116461 per 1,000
50 Tunisia: 0.0112159 per 1,000
51 Netherlands: 0.0111538 per 1,000
52 New Zealand: 0.0111524 per 1,000
53 Denmark: 0.0106775 per 1,000
54 Norway: 0.0106684 per 1,000
55 Ireland: 0.00946215 per 1,000
56 Switzerland: 0.00921351 per 1,000
57 Indonesia: 0.00910842 per 1,000
58 Greece: 0.0075928 per 1,000
59 Hong Kong: 0.00550804 per 1,000
60 Japan: 0.00499933 per 1,000
61 Saudi Arabia: 0.00397456 per 1,000
62 Qatar: 0.00115868 per 1,000

Might be interesting to really do a statistical analysis, but it seems that there isn't much correlation either way, except in individual cases. And, a reasonable margin of error has to be built in because there can clearly be under- and over-reporting. Also, a country with a military dictatorship, or a secret police, might not report many murders that occur and not count the weapons owned by the military.

[Dmitri]

I dunno about that chart, in the first post. US isn't even there, and Austria is #2?! I lived in Vienna for 2 years, walked all over the place (had no car) late at night almost every day and never had an incident, except for one stoned guy and a young couple having quiet sex on a bench in the public park at about 10:30 PM.
The family I stayed with had a 12-year-old daughter who would go out with friends and walk/ride public transportation back home rather late at night and they weren't worried (and I could see why.)
I can't even imagine that family letting her party in downtown Atlanta that late by herself on a Saturday night, if they lived here. Hell, there are placed downtown Atlanta where I "felt funny" DRIVING though an intersection in my CAR, for heaven's sake.
There's simply no comparison. I've no idea where that data is coming from.

[bailewen]

As was pointed out earlier, "violent crime" is an ambiguous term. Unless the countries being compared have the exact same legal code, the numbers mean little. Slapping someone in public could be a violent crime in one place where in another it may take someone requiring hospital admittance. Legalities aside, just the differences in level of enforcement makes a difference. If the local authorities do not tend to file reports on bar fights and "friendly" scuffles, then the numbers go down. If every little infraction gets a formal police report, then the numbers go up.

What defines a "violent crime" for each country?
What is the typical level of enforcement?
What is the breakdown of types of violent crimes, ie. murder vs. bar fights vs. domestic violence vs. purse snatching?

Without that sort of info, the numbers mean very little.

[Darth Rock&Roll]

It is good to keep in mind the three kinds of lies:

1) lies

2) damned filthy lies

3) statistics

[Ian]

Crime Statistics > Murders (per capita) (most recent) by country VIEW DATA: Totals Per capita
Definition Source Printable version

Showing latest available data. Rank Countries Amount

# 1 Colombia: 0.617847 per 1,000 people
# 2 South Africa: 0.496008 per 1,000 people
# 3 Jamaica: 0.324196 per 1,000 people
# 4 Venezuela: 0.316138 per 1,000 people
# 5 Russia: 0.201534 per 1,000 people
# 6 Mexico: 0.130213 per 1,000 people
# 7 Estonia: 0.107277 per 1,000 people
# 8 Latvia: 0.10393 per 1,000 people
# 9 Lithuania: 0.102863 per 1,000 people
# 10 Belarus: 0.0983495 per 1,000 people
# 11 Ukraine: 0.094006 per 1,000 people
# 12 Papua New Guinea: 0.0838593 per 1,000 people
# 13 Kyrgyzstan: 0.0802565 per 1,000 people
# 14 Thailand: 0.0800798 per 1,000 people
# 15 Moldova: 0.0781145 per 1,000 people
# 16 Zimbabwe: 0.0749938 per 1,000 people
# 17 Seychelles: 0.0739025 per 1,000 people
# 18 Zambia: 0.070769 per 1,000 people
# 19 Costa Rica: 0.061006 per 1,000 people
# 20 Poland: 0.0562789 per 1,000 people
# 21 Georgia: 0.0511011 per 1,000 people
# 22 Uruguay: 0.045082 per 1,000 people
# 23 Bulgaria: 0.0445638 per 1,000 people
# 24 United States: 0.042802 per 1,000 people
# 25 Armenia: 0.0425746 per 1,000 people
# 26 India: 0.0344083 per 1,000 people
# 27 Yemen: 0.0336276 per 1,000 people
# 28 Dominica: 0.0289733 per 1,000 people
# 29 Azerbaijan: 0.0285642 per 1,000 people
# 30 Finland: 0.0283362 per 1,000 people
# 31 Slovakia: 0.0263303 per 1,000 people
# 32 Romania: 0.0250784 per 1,000 people
# 33 Portugal: 0.0233769 per 1,000 people
# 34 Malaysia: 0.0230034 per 1,000 people
# 35 Macedonia, The Former Yugoslav Republic of: 0.0229829 per 1,000 people
# 36 Mauritius: 0.021121 per 1,000 people
# 37 Hungary: 0.0204857 per 1,000 people
# 38 Korea, South: 0.0196336 per 1,000 people
# 39 Slovenia: 0.0179015 per 1,000 people
# 40 France: 0.0173272 per 1,000 people
# 41 Czech Republic: 0.0169905 per 1,000 people
# 42 Iceland: 0.0168499 per 1,000 people
# 43 Australia: 0.0150324 per 1,000 people
# 44 Canada: 0.0149063 per 1,000 people
# 45 Chile: 0.014705 per 1,000 people
# 46 United Kingdom: 0.0140633 per 1,000 people
# 47 Italy: 0.0128393 per 1,000 people
# 48 Spain: 0.0122456 per 1,000 people
# 49 Germany: 0.0116461 per 1,000 people
# 50 Tunisia: 0.0112159 per 1,000 people
# 51 Netherlands: 0.0111538 per 1,000 people
# 52 New Zealand: 0.0111524 per 1,000 people
# 53 Denmark: 0.0106775 per 1,000 people
# 54 Norway: 0.0106684 per 1,000 people
# 55 Ireland: 0.00946215 per 1,000 people
# 56 Switzerland: 0.00921351 per 1,000 people
# 57 Indonesia: 0.00910842 per 1,000 people
# 58 Greece: 0.0075928 per 1,000 people
# 59 Hong Kong: 0.00550804 per 1,000 people
# 60 Japan: 0.00499933 per 1,000 people
# 61 Saudi Arabia: 0.00397456 per 1,000 people
# 62 Qatar: 0.00115868 per 1,000 people

Shit, we're not anywhere NEAR first anymore!

[roger hao]

so - observations -
1/ US media is making everyone think that US citizens
should be afraid and that they should spend more on law enforcement. Hence the
big surprise when US doesnt come in at the top. All lies.
2/ Law enforcement in the US costs about 10 times more than crime.
3/ Gun ownership and murder do not correlate the way anti-gun peeps say it does.

[Steve James]

Well, that's the thing about statistics: ie, it's not the stats, it's the interpretation. Ok,.methodology is also key, but let's assume the accuracy of the facts and figures. People often use statistics in order to support their views, but that doesn't mean the same people will accept stats that do not support their views.
The last set of stats I posted don't really support or disprove either pro or anti gun arguments. The US has the highest ratio of weapons, but is roughly in the middle in terms of murders. Colombia is #1 in murder, yat almost at the b ottom in terms of weapons. So, more weapons seem to equate to less muders. But, that conclusion would be a hasty, faulty interpretation.
Sure, it works fine for the US and Yemen, but not the same reasons. And , it doen't address the fact that most of the "less violent"countries with less guns actually have fewer murders. Anyway, look at Iraq: and where is N. Korea? There are no guns and no murders there?
I do agree that news reports make Americans fearful. Crime shows are the most popular on tv; thug culture and gangster idolization, etc. At the end of the day, Americans and westerners live in safe countries.