Recreational drugs and spiritual training

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Recreational drugs and spiritual training

Postby TrainingDummy on Sun Aug 30, 2009 11:23 pm

A few posters on the Binaural beats thread mentioned using marijuana, LSD, peyote or mushrooms as part of their practice.

I'm personally dead set against the practice, for I feel the risk/reward ratio of damaging your brain vs the quality of experience is poor. However I'm very interested in anyone who uses drugs in what they feel is part of their genuine spiritual practice, and isn't just romanticising their drug use because they've read a few Carlos Castaneda books.

I'm keen to know how drug use improves your own practice, and I'm especially keen to know if you're studying under a teacher of some kind in a spiritual tradition that endorses drug use, shamanic or otherwise.

Thanks,
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Re: Recreational drugs and spiritual training

Postby I-mon on Sun Aug 30, 2009 11:47 pm

I tend to have mushrooms or LSD once every year or two when the time seems right, usually in forests or some sort of wilderness, as deep as I can get. I have learned many, many things from these experiences which have permanently altered my understanding of reality, and continue to shape and influence my practice and my life.

The mushrooms are an amazing gift. I am absolutely convinced that they have played a major role in the evolution of consciousness in our species. Bloody good way to have a laugh with your mates too.

But yes, they are dangerous, and no substitute for meditation or any sort of regular practice.
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Re: Recreational drugs and spiritual training

Postby Ralteria on Mon Aug 31, 2009 4:42 am

Having been on this path in the past, I have to be on the "No" side of this discussion. While the altered perception you experience while being on drugs can be beneficiary to a certain degree the risks really far out weight the gains. I'm not sure I would completely disregard them though.

When I was in my late teens/early 20's I definetly experimented a bit. I can't say it hasn't effected me, and I honestly can't say that it hasn't effected me positively. Experiencing a different perspective on things, wether drug induced or not, is a "sobering" (lol) experience. Too often we plod through life like automatons, building subjective fetters that we cling to with a death like grip, never really living life. As a young man, once I got a taste of what it was like to feel differently I wanted to explore it and see where these feelings took me. It was a spiritual journey for me, not one of a drug induced frenzy. I never was looking for my next hit, and walking away from time to time to recoup and re-evalute things was relatively easy. It helped me become the person I am today, and I'm proud of that, if not the wiser. However as I grew older, started holding a real job, married and had a family...these things changed alot for me.

I realized alot of what I was looking for in spiritual fulfillment was because I really didn't have anything in my life that was truly offering that besides drugs. I was a musician, a college student, and looking down on the majority of people as not understanding what was really going on. Real life can hit you hard and fast though, and once I quit college (still kicking myself for that one, doh) things really started to settle in. When I started building my life, they really hit full force. The spiritual fulfilment that I receive from actually living my life( instead of waiting for a drug to let me experience it) is far greater than I would have expected. It's not always fun and alot of times it can be a "bad trip" , so to speak, but as I fall to sleep at night I know that what I'm doing is completely fulfilling. I look back on the experimenting I did and realize that I've outgrown alot of it. It's no longer necessary. When you are in the thick of it, it's easy to forget that those drugs are a crutch to spirituality.

You'd be surprised how much more something like kids can truly teach you about yourself, if you are willing to look and pay attention. Way more, I feel than those substances ever did for me. I'm not saying that they aren't useful and they dont have their place. Eventually, though you have to walk away so the the real learning can begin.
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Re: Recreational drugs and spiritual training

Postby Steve James on Mon Aug 31, 2009 6:13 am

Imo, spirituality is not recreation. But, people do consider their training to be recreation. So, they use stimulants or depressants while they practice. Whether this enhances or benefits their practice is entirely up to the individual. Ever see old Chinese guys smoking cigarettes and doing push hands? How many masters can we name who we know liked to drink alcohol?

In societies where a drug is part of a spiritual exercise, like a "spirit journey", the drug is considered sacred and it's part of the religion. When westerners encountered those drugs, they didn't have the religious context. We (most of us) just don't use "drugs" for the same reasons or view them in the same way. In contrast, we use alcohol in our religious ceremonies all the time. It's not for recreation, though I guess alcoholics see communion as a great part of Sunday services :).

The big problem I see with using drugs to attain anything is that you got to come back to reality ... or stay high all the time. So, if training is practice, better hope you're high when you get attacked ;).
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Re: Recreational drugs and spiritual training

Postby Darth Rock&Roll on Mon Aug 31, 2009 6:51 am

synthetics, no.
naturals, yes and documented with great frequency over centuries.

It is quite well known that mind altering substances and hallucinogens have played a huge part in spiritual pursuits from virtually ALL traditions.

Shamanism has many faces in multiple cultural traditions.

Getting high on weed and meditating without intention or purpose (guided by said intention) is an empty act the results in no loss no gain.

If you are using keys to scratch floors instead of opening doors, you are not using them properly or effectively.

Drug use can precipitate or precludes your spiritual pursuit, if you are uncertain of the effect, you are wasting your time.

However, if the use of a substance is subscribed for a particular intentful practice, then so be it.

:)

don't mistake your "high" as a trans-personal spiritual experience though. It is important to maintain awareness of the objective reality separate form yourself. Even while under extreme influence. That is the way of it and if you aren't prepared for that, then I would urge you to not do this sort ofthing experimentally.

It can cause all sorts of mental problems for you. I promise. I've seen it before.
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Re: Recreational drugs and spiritual training

Postby TaoJoannes on Mon Aug 31, 2009 8:23 am

I-mon wrote:I tend to have mushrooms or LSD once every year or two when the time seems right, usually in forests or some sort of wilderness, as deep as I can get. I have learned many, many things from these experiences which have permanently altered my understanding of reality, and continue to shape and influence my practice and my life.

The mushrooms are an amazing gift. I am absolutely convinced that they have played a major role in the evolution of consciousness in our species. Bloody good way to have a laugh with your mates too.

But yes, they are dangerous, and no substitute for meditation or any sort of regular practice.


I'm with this, but just the mushrooms, at home, with a sitter and some great instrumental music, with a salvia kicker at just the right time.

I haven't studied under any master in a tradition that advocates the practice, I've just studied a lot of traditions that do and approach is carefully and respectfully. It's not a party thing, social thing, or even really a recreational thing, it's just an insanely great meditation experience.

Now my relationship with marijuana on the other hand, is at times troublesome.
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Re: Recreational drugs and spiritual training

Postby shawnsegler on Mon Aug 31, 2009 8:35 am

Snoop understands "the way"

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Re: Recreational drugs and spiritual training

Postby RobP2 on Mon Aug 31, 2009 9:25 am

Image
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Re: Recreational drugs and spiritual training

Postby shawnsegler on Mon Aug 31, 2009 9:33 am

Those are some ugly individuals.
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Re: Recreational drugs and spiritual training

Postby BonesCom on Mon Aug 31, 2009 1:10 pm

Ha, I should really look around before I start topics. Accidently put this one in videos, then added a video for justification : http://rumsoakedfist.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=6040

TJ: I know what you mean with weed, but I have to say you have more mental fortitude than I do to use a salvia kicker, damn.

I don't associate my training with drugs at all, although I am an avid weed smoker, I just don't like trying to train stoned, as I said on the other post, it makes my legs shakey. In terms of hallucinogens, it's been a long time and to tell the truth I have never really had a good go on anything decent, just some shitty acid that made me a little differently stoned. E on the other hand is a filthy drug, H is just boring and C is too morish to be worthwhile dabbling in (also it is practically non-existent in NZ, unless you're a media type, ie wanker!)
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Re: Recreational drugs and spiritual training

Postby neijia_boxer on Mon Aug 31, 2009 2:03 pm

As someone who did the shamanistic psychedelic Bodhisattva rasta tour in my college days at gatherings, retreats and what not....DMT, Mescaline, Mary Jane, ect. try it in the right situation in a meditative setting, then drop all of it. Mantra- pacify, enrich, magnetize , destroy.

Those tools are illusions. you can attain it with meditation, qigong, and other means. those things are extreme yin, the real power is in prolonged balance.
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Re: Recreational drugs and spiritual training

Postby Strange on Mon Aug 31, 2009 3:19 pm

guys, i hope we do not turn this into something that legitimizes drug use, natural or otherwise.
when under the influence, such differentiation means little. this stuff is a long, fast and deep slippery slope.

your ma study and cultivation does not need drugs in any way shape or form. except for some jow now and then.

i have some peeps that i care about talking such stuff with an smiley hip ok experimental type attitude
the normally jovial and wise-cracking strange, change his face faster than a Chuan Opera Face-Changing Master
and told them i would kick their ass so hard that it goes from behind to front.
that sort of got the msg across and straighten things out.
just saying
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Re: Recreational drugs and spiritual training

Postby Chris Fleming on Mon Aug 31, 2009 4:07 pm

Strange wrote:guys, i hope we do not turn this into something that legitimizes drug use, natural or otherwise.
when under the influence, such differentiation means little. this stuff is a long, fast and deep slippery slope.

your ma study and cultivation does not need drugs in any way shape or form. except for some jow now and then.

i have some peeps that i care about talking such stuff with an smiley hip ok experimental type attitude
the normally jovial and wise-cracking strange, change his face faster than a Chuan Opera Face-Changing Master
and told them i would kick their ass so hard that it goes from behind to front.
that sort of got the msg across and straighten things out.
just saying


+1
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Re: Recreational drugs and spiritual training

Postby qiphlow on Mon Aug 31, 2009 7:14 pm

i've done my share of the psychedelics. yes, they can be lots of fun. yes, you can learn may things from the experience. i find that i don't really need them anymore, though. i'm trying to be high, not get high.
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Re: Recreational drugs and spiritual training

Postby Chris Fleming on Mon Aug 31, 2009 7:29 pm

Oh yeah, I went and posted this:

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