Recreational drugs and spiritual training

[Michael]

i've done my share of the psychedelics. yes, they can be lots of fun. yes, you can learn may things from the experience. i find that i don't really need them anymore, though. i'm trying to be high, not get high.

Be the shroom.

[BonesCom]

I would really like to point out that if you're are saying "don't do drugs" then you better not be drinking alcohol, or coffee, or taking any other biologically active small molecule, because if you are then you are simply a hypocrite

[Chris Fleming]

I would really like to point out that if you're are saying "don't do drugs" then you better not be drinking alcohol, or coffee, or taking any other biologically active small molecule, because if you are then you are simply a hypocrite

Sure, people who say such things may be hypocrites...OR they are using language intelligently, beyond a black and white, grade school use of language. When people say "don't do drugs" they are usually not referring to aspirin, they are referring to mind altering controlled substances which are used for the expressed purpose of becoming and acting intoxicated. Language gymnastics are a funny thing in that way.

[BonesCom]

I would really like to point out that if you're are saying "don't do drugs" then you better not be drinking alcohol, or coffee, or taking any other biologically active small molecule, because if you are then you are simply a hypocrite

Sure, people who say such things may be hypocrites...OR they are using language intelligently, beyond a black and white, grade school use of language. When people say "don't do drugs" they are usually not referring to aspirin, they are referring to mind altering controlled substances which are used for the expressed purpose of becoming and acting intoxicated. Language gymnastics are a funny thing in that way.

Ahhh, glad you brought up aspirin, a great example of a drug that if it was put through clinical trials it would not be released for general consumption. What I think is grade school is the perpetual regurgitation of old studies that were methodologically flawed to such an extent as to make their results completely worthless (talking specifically about marijuana here).

At the end of the day trying to do proper research on the effects of recreational drugs is incredibly hard, ie getting funding/permission to do so, also that the majority of papers that are published are from places like NIDA (National Institute of Drug Abuse) hmmm and I wonder what their bias is. Yet, as is the case with most things mildly scientific, the general public don't know shit, don't seek to find the small amount of info out there and basically just believe what Mummy and Daddy tell them.

Don't get me wrong, over indulgence in anything is bad, and some drugs are particularly addictive, and some people don't react favourably to some drugs. But what if we made alcohol illegal because some people become alcoholics, or some people get violent when they drink? What would people here say about that. Surely we couldn't make an addictive substance legal, oh wait that's right cigarettes... To assume a drug is illegal because it is bad for you is at best ignorant and worst infantile. Also Chris you seem to be against intoxicants, or is just the controlled ones? Why not do something for pleasure? I'm sure there are things you do purely for pleasure.

Remember at the end of the day YOU are responsible for your own choices, as I am for mine. If you were to look down on me simply on the basis that I decide to do something (that does no harm to anyone else) that you wouldn't, then how is that not a form of discrimination? Oh maybe you are just concerned for my well being... or maybe it's just a way you can look at yourself in the mirror and think "Yeah, I'm valuable and worthwhile, and even more so because I don't do drugs"

[Strange]

Don't get me wrong, over indulgence in anything is bad, and some drugs are particularly addictive, and some people don't react favourably to some drugs. But what if we made alcohol illegal because some people become alcoholics, or some people get violent when they drink? What would people here say about that. Surely we couldn't make an addictive substance legal, oh wait that's right cigarettes... To assume a drug is illegal because it is bad for you is at best ignorant and worst infantile. Also Chris you seem to be against intoxicants, or is just the controlled ones? Why not do something for pleasure? I'm sure there are things you do purely for pleasure.

well, i would say if you cant hold your liquor, dun drink..... boy.
yeah i drink 2 cups of coffee and smoke. i can go for a whole week without and chain smoke when i feel like it.
they can be highly addictive, but most ppl do not steal from their family, beat up their parent and siblings, turn on
every friend to buy coffee or cigarettes, now do they?

ah yes talking about addictive theres also knitting and that hi i get from my practice.
so where does that leave us.
come now my mang

[Chris Fleming]

"Why not do something for pleasure?"

Dude if you want to use drugs than by all means go for it. You reap what you sow and as you said, YOU are responsible for it. What I find interesting is that people want to look to others for their view, mainly in hopes of gathering enough support to continue their vices. Why go online looking for others to say that what you are doing is ok? And should someone not share your view, then all of a sudden, that's discrimination!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7_KIzbktgJk

[I-mon]

well, i would say if you cant hold your liquor, dun drink...

You reap what you sow and as you said, YOU are responsible for it.

that sums things up quite nicely.

[affa]

DMT, Mescaline, Mary Jane, ect... Those tools are illusions.

you can attain it with meditation, qigong, and other means.

those tools are illusions too.

[bailewen]

I would really like to point out that if you're are saying "don't do drugs" then you better not be drinking alcohol, or coffee, or taking any other biologically active small molecule, because if you are then you are simply a hypocrite

Sure, people who say such things may be hypocrites...OR they are using language intelligently, beyond a black and white, grade school use of language. When people say "don't do drugs" they are usually not referring to aspirin, they are referring to mind altering controlled substances which are used for the expressed purpose of becoming and acting intoxicated. Language gymnastics are a funny thing in that way.

Alcohol and cigarettes still fall into that category without any language gymnastics at all.

...but most ppl do not steal from their family, beat up their parent and siblings, turn on
every friend to buy coffee or cigarettes, now do they? ..

They don't do that for marijuana either. Sometimes for alcohol it happens though.

I don't know what any of this has to do with the topic though since "spiritual training" doesn't really enter into any of these arguments quoted.

[qiphlow]

DMT, Mescaline, Mary Jane, ect... Those tools are illusions.

you can attain it with meditation, qigong, and other means.

those tools are illusions too.

word.

[TrainingDummy]

To I-mon, Darth Rock&Roll, Tao Joannes and other "pro" drug users (no disrespect intended):


Thanks for your replies,

Would you mind expanding a bit of the sorts of experiences you associate with plant use, and how that fuels your personal path? I'd love to know a few personal examples.

My questioning comes from my study of tantra, within my own spiritual tradition there is a number of teachings on soma. Within that path, soma is seen as a powerful state of consciousness achievable through certain meditation practices (or as a blessing from the gods themselves), and it's only recently that I've discovered that there is considerable evidence that soma was a entheogenic plant.

So I'd like to study how these teachings changed over time, and try to ascertain whether the plant induced experiences are similar to the states of consciousness that can be achieved through meditative practices alone. Since I'm personally not interested in experimenting with plants, I'm keen to hear the experiences of others.

Thanks,
Dummy

[TrainingDummy]

To Ralteria, Neijia Boxer, Strange, Chris Fleming, and others who are on the "anti" drugs on a spiritual path, and are concerned that this thread will degrade into a thread that supports recreational drug use.

My personal stance is:



As I stated above, I'm really only interested in discussing drug use as part of a spiritual training, NOT generalised drug use.

[Darth Rock&Roll]

well... lol

the way that can be spoken of isn't the true way.~ Lao tze

Are you experienced? ~ Jimi

[Strange]

i AM "spirit-ual", what the hell are you talking about?

[Chris Fleming]

"As I stated above, I'm really only interested in discussing drug use as part of a spiritual training, NOT generalised drug use."

And that would be great, except for the same things applying that any other drug user is exposing him/herself to and not to mention the fact that there is no "spiritual training" that can be helped by drugs in the first place. "Spiritual" training of this sort probably opens oneself to "the dark side" so to speak. I'm sure that such a statement won't be the popular opinion here but so be it.