Recreational drugs and spiritual training

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Re: Recreational drugs and spiritual training

Postby I-mon on Wed Sep 02, 2009 8:28 pm

The association of plant medicines with witchcraft and devil worship really seems to be the foundation of the modern "war on drugs", in my opinion, or at least the reason why adult usage of things like Marijuana, mushrooms, cactus, ayahuasca, salvia divinorum, etc is prohibited.

Perhaps the only thing that we are opening up is our own subconscious, which certainly does have enough of a dark side to make a lot of people lose their minds.

http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/press_releases/2006/07_11_06.html

Rigorous study hailed as landmark

Using unusually rigorous scientific conditions and measures, Johns Hopkins researchers have shown that the active agent in “sacred mushrooms” can induce mystical/spiritual experiences descriptively identical to spontaneous ones people have reported for centuries.
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Re: Recreational drugs and spiritual training

Postby I-mon on Wed Sep 02, 2009 8:34 pm

i'll post the whole article, it's a good one:


Rigorous study hailed as landmark

Using unusually rigorous scientific conditions and measures, Johns Hopkins researchers have shown that the active agent in “sacred mushrooms” can induce mystical/spiritual experiences descriptively identical to spontaneous ones people have reported for centuries.

The resulting experiences apparently prompt positive changes in behavior and attitude that last several months, at least.

The agent, a plant alkaloid called psilocybin, mimics the effect of serotonin on brain receptors-as do some other hallucinogens-but precisely where in the brain and in what manner are unknown.

An account of the study, accompanied by an editorial and four experts’ commentaries, appears online today in the journal Psychopharmacology.

Cited as “landmark” in the commentary by former National Institute on Drug Abuse (NIDA) director, Charles Schuster, the research marks a new systematic approach to studying certain hallucinogenic compounds that, in the 1950s, showed signs of therapeutic potential or value in research into the nature of consciousness and sensory perception. “Human consciousness…is a function of the ebb and flow of neural impulses in various regions of the brain-the very substrate that drugs such as psilocybin act upon,” Schuster says. “Understanding what mediates these effects is clearly within the realm of neuroscience and deserves investigation.”

“A vast gap exists between what we know of these drugs-mostly from descriptive anthropology-and what we believe we can understand using modern clinical pharmacology techniques,” says study leader Roland Griffiths, Ph.D., a professor with Hopkins’ departments of Neuroscience and Psychiatry and Behavioral Biology. “That gap is large because, as a reaction to the excesses of the 1960s, human research with hallucinogens has been basically frozen in time these last forty years.”

All of the study’s authors caution about substantial risks of taking psilocybin under conditions not appropriately supervised. “Even in this study, where we greatly controlled conditions to minimize adverse effects, about a third of subjects reported significant fear, with some also reporting transient feelings of paranoia,” says Griffiths. “Under unmonitored conditions, it’s not hard to imagine those emotions escalating to panic and dangerous behavior.”

The researchers’ message isn’t just that psilocybin can produce mystical experiences. “I had a healthy skepticism going into this,” says Griffiths, “and that finding alone was a surprise.” But, as important, he says, “is that, under very defined conditions, with careful preparation, you can safely and fairly reliably occasion what’s called a primary mystical experience that may lead to positive changes in a person. It’s an early step in what we hope will be a large body of scientific work that will ultimately help people.”

The authors acknowledge the unusual nature of the work, treading, as it does, a fine line between neuroscience and areas most would consider outside science’s realm. “But establishing the basic science here is necessary,” says Griffiths, “to take advantage of the possible benefits psilocybin can bring to our understanding of how thought, emotion, and ultimately behavior are grounded in biology.”

Griffiths is quick to emphasize the scientific intent of the study. “We’re just measuring what can be observed,” he says; “We’re not entering into ‘Does God exist or not exist.’ This work can’t and won’t go there.”

In the study, more than 60 percent of subjects described the effects of psilocybin in ways that met criteria for a “full mystical experience” as measured by established psychological scales. One third said the experience was the single most spiritually significant of their lifetimes; and more than two-thirds rated it among their five most meaningful and spiritually significant. Griffiths says subjects liken it to the importance of the birth of their first child or the death of a parent.

Two months later, 79 percent of subjects reported moderately or greatly increased well-being or life satisfaction compared with those given a placebo at the same test session. A majority said their mood, attitudes and behaviors had changed for the better. Structured interviews with family members, friends and co-workers generally confirmed the subjects’ remarks. Results of a year-long followup are being readied for publication.

Psychological tests and subjects’ own reports showed no harm to study participants, though some admitted extreme anxiety or other unpleasant effects in the hours following the psilocybin capsule. The drug has not been observed to be addictive or physically toxic in animal studies or human populations. “In this regard,” says Griffiths, a psychopharmacologist, “it contrasts with MDMA (ecstasy), amphetamines or alcohol.”

The study isn’t the first with psilocybin, the researchers say, though some of the earlier ones, done elsewhere, had notably less rigorous design, were less thorough in measuring outcomes or lacked longer-term follow-up.

In the present work, 36 healthy, well-educated volunteers-most of them middle-aged-with no family history of psychosis or bipolar disorder were selected. All had active spiritual practices. “We thought a familiarity with spiritual practice would give them a framework for interpreting their experiences and that they’d be less likely to be confused or troubled by them,” Griffiths says. All gave informed consent to the study approved by Hopkins’ institutional review board.

Each of thirty of the subjects attended two separate 8-hour drug sessions, at two month intervals. On one they received psilocybin, on another, methylphenidate (Ritalin), the active placebo.

In designing the study, researchers had to overcome or at least, greatly minimize two hurdles: the risk of adverse side-effects and the likelihood that the expectations of getting the test drug or the placebo would influence subjects’ perceptions.

To lessen the former, each subject met several times, before drug sessions began, with a reassuring “monitor,” a medical professional experienced in observing drug study participants. Monitors stayed with them during the capsule-taking sessions. Actual trials took place in a room outfitted like a comfortable, slightly upscale living room, with soft music and indirect, non-laboratory lighting. Heart rate and blood pressure were measured throughout.

The researchers countered “expectancy” by having both monitors and subjects “blinded” to what substance would be given. For ethical reasons, subjects were told about hallucinogens’ possible effects, butalso learned they could, instead, get other substances-weak or strong-that might change perception or consciousness. Most important, a third “red herring” group of six subjects had two blinded placebo sessions, then were told they’d receive psilocybin at a third. This tactic-questionnaires later verified-kept participants and monitors in the dark at the first two sessions about each capsule’s contents.

Nine established questionnaires and a new, specially createdfollowup survey were used to rate experiences at appropriate times in the study. They included those that differentiate effects of psychoactive drugs, that detect altered states of consciousness, that rate mystical experiences and assess changes in outlook.

The study, Griffiths adds, has advanced understanding of hallucinogen abuse.

As for where the work could lead, the team is planning a trial of patients suffering from advanced cancer-related depression or anxiety, following up suggestive research several decades ago. They’re also designing studies to test a role for psilocybin in treating drug dependence.

The study was funded by grants from NIDA and the Council on Spiritual Practices.

Una McCann, M.D., William Richards, Ph.D., of the Johns Hopkins Medical Institutions and Robert Jesse of the Council on Spiritual Practices, San Francisco, were co-researchers.

The commentaries on this study that appear in this issue of Psychopharmacology are available at: http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/Press_re ... taries.pdf

and include remarks by:

*Hopkins neuroscientist and Professor of Neuroscience, Solomon Snyder, M.D.

*Former NIDA head Charles Schuster, Ph.D., now Distinguished Professor of Psychiatry and Behavioral Neuroscience at the Wayne State University School of Medicine

*Herbert Kleber, M.D., a professor of psychiatry at Columbia University and a former deputy director of the White House Office of National Drug Control Policy (ONDCP)

*David Nichols, Ph.D., with the Purdue University School of Pharmacy and Pharmaceutical Sciences

*Harriet de Wit, Ph.D., at the University of Chicago Department of Psychiatry. DeWit is the editor of Psychopharmacology.


Related links:
Q&A is with Roland Griffiths, the study’s lead researcher:
http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/Press_re ... silocybinQ

Psychopharmacology:
http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/Press_re ... ocybin.pdf
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Re: Recreational drugs and spiritual training

Postby I-mon on Wed Sep 02, 2009 8:52 pm

So, in this research where people who had never taken mushrooms before were given them in a controlled environment that was safe, indoors, with soothing music and their eyes covered. 60 percent had a "full mystical experience", one third had the most important spiritual experience of their life, two thirds had one of their top 5 most important experiences.

now take that understanding and put it in deep untouched forest with room to explore movement, terrain, amongst an infinity of other life forms all around, stars, fire, water, running, climbing, listening, sitting in trees or climbing rocks and waterfalls. it is too much to even try to describe, and there is too much fear involved for many people to deal with.

our ancestors were profoundly influenced by these plants and substances. they believed that they had enormous value, and were among the most potent medicines, in many cases they were even worshiped as gods or links to the gods.

even though i say and believe that they are "good for having a laugh with your mates", I am also in awe of what they do and what they can reveal. The sense of awe is one of the foundations of spiritual practice, IMO, and it is one of the key features of any good psychedelic experience.
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Re: Recreational drugs and spiritual training

Postby TaoJoannes on Wed Sep 02, 2009 8:54 pm

oh qué una tela enredada que tejemos cuando primero practicamos para engañar
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Re: Recreational drugs and spiritual training

Postby Chris Fleming on Wed Sep 02, 2009 9:15 pm

"The association of plant medicines with witchcraft and devil worship really seems to be the foundation of the modern "war on drugs""

Naw, the "war on drugs" had nothing to do with religion, but rather was steeped in politics, wars and racism. See the documentary called something like "Drug Wars" or something like that.
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Re: Recreational drugs and spiritual training

Postby qiphlow on Wed Sep 02, 2009 9:29 pm

I-mon wrote:So, in this research where people who had never taken mushrooms before were given them in a controlled environment that was safe, indoors, with soothing music and their eyes covered. 60 percent had a "full mystical experience", one third had the most important spiritual experience of their life, two thirds had one of their top 5 most important experiences.

now take that understanding and put it in deep untouched forest with room to explore movement, terrain, amongst an infinity of other life forms all around, stars, fire, water, running, climbing, listening, sitting in trees or climbing rocks and waterfalls. it is too much to even try to describe, and there is too much fear involved for many people to deal with.

our ancestors were profoundly influenced by these plants and substances. they believed that they had enormous value, and were among the most potent medicines, in many cases they were even worshiped as gods or links to the gods.

even though i say and believe that they are "good for having a laugh with your mates", I am also in awe of what they do and what they can reveal. The sense of awe is one of the foundations of spiritual practice, IMO, and it is one of the key features of any good psychedelic experience.

yup.
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Re: Recreational drugs and spiritual training

Postby qiphlow on Wed Sep 02, 2009 9:30 pm

Darth Rock&Roll wrote:well... lol

the way that can be spoken of isn't the true way.~ Lao tze

Are you experienced? ~ Jimi

:D
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Re: Recreational drugs and spiritual training

Postby Steve James on Wed Sep 02, 2009 11:15 pm

More people will die from legal, socially acceptable drugs (non-prescribed and prescribed) in one year than have ever been reported for some illicit drugs since they've been keeping records.

Nowhere in the Constitution does it say a guy can't smoke weed - :) Thomas Jefferson grew hemp. Marijuana wasn't illegal, iinm, until the 20th century. So.... the reason for the laws now are not based on morality or, imo, on the effects on the physical body. It's more about mind control --and money. I.e., the people who profit most from the drug trade want drugs to stay illegal. Both tobacco and alcohol have fueled more wars (since our own Revolution) and industries (including NASCAR and organized crime) than any other products --but, cocaine, heroin and marijuana are catching up. And, I don't have any clue about the size of the "designer drugs," the speeds, cranks, crystals, let alone the otc and prescription mood alterers.

So, I think it's the desire (or need) to get high,alter consciousness or mood that has to be addressed first. Just because one's drug of choice is legal or is prescribed does not make one morally superior or mean that one will live longer or healthier. But, that's not to suggest that all drugs or any drug is "good." I also agree that the illegal drug trade creates crime and violence. That's a different issue, as is whether the "war on drugs" can eer work --or was ever intended to work.
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Re: Recreational drugs and spiritual training

Postby grzegorz on Thu Sep 03, 2009 1:43 am

qiphlow wrote:i've done my share of the psychedelics. yes, they can be lots of fun. yes, you can learn may things from the experience. i find that i don't really need them anymore, though. i'm trying to be high, not get high.


Same here. Been there, done that, bought the t-shirt.

It was a fun trip until the people I was around all started having bad trips.

One of my last trips was when I was at a party and some guys wanted to jump me. That joke sucks. ;D

Anyway, I snuck out of there after telling them I did a bunch of speed that night and felt like I was on PCP and started swinging my fists around like I'd take them all on.

The morale of the story is if you're interested you're probably going to do it. So my suggestion is to do it in a safe environment with people you know and trust and smoke lots of weed to take the edge off.

I wouldn't do it too often though. I've heard from a TCM guy that says it makes your meridians run backwards and I believe it is hard on your body and nervous system (like speed) which is why I'd never do it again.

Although I might consider dropping for Disneyland. ;)
Last edited by grzegorz on Thu Sep 03, 2009 1:48 am, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: Recreational drugs and spiritual training

Postby bigphatwong on Thu Sep 03, 2009 6:49 am

grzegorz wrote:

Anyway, I snuck out of there after telling them I did a bunch of speed that night and felt like I was on PCP and started swinging my fists around like I'd take them all on.


gregzors, that is truly hilarious. I picture you as the Duke in Fear & Loathing going "don't fuck with me!! I am Ahab!" ;D

Now that you mention it, I've always wanted to go on The Price Is Right on two hits of sunshine acid. All those lights, and people smiling and winning toasters would be a gas.
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Re: Recreational drugs and spiritual training

Postby grzegorz on Thu Sep 03, 2009 11:11 am

bigphatwong wrote:
grzegorz wrote:

Anyway, I snuck out of there after telling them I did a bunch of speed that night and felt like I was on PCP and started swinging my fists around like I'd take them all on.


gregzors, that is truly hilarious. I picture you as the Duke in Fear & Loathing going "don't fuck with me!! I am Ahab!" ;D

Now that you mention it, I've always wanted to go on The Price Is Right on two hits of sunshine acid. All those lights, and people smiling and winning toasters would be a gas.


;D Yeah I suppose it was a little bit like fear and loathing but in LA.

I brought them the doses from SF and they thought I was some big time dealer with pockets of cash.

That's the thanks you get. Lesson learned and I moved on.
Last edited by grzegorz on Thu Sep 03, 2009 12:15 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Recreational drugs and spiritual training

Postby grzegorz on Thu Sep 03, 2009 12:11 pm

Let's see who can find the best acid vid...





Last edited by grzegorz on Thu Sep 03, 2009 12:17 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Recreational drugs and spiritual training

Postby neijia_boxer on Thu Sep 03, 2009 1:51 pm

qiphlow wrote:
affa wrote:
neijia_boxer wrote:DMT, Mescaline, Mary Jane, ect... Those tools are illusions.

you can attain it with meditation, qigong, and other means.


those tools are illusions too.


word.


i was very close to agreeing as well, since attachment to anything external to one self can be construed as illusion. Buddha even warned against attachment to his own teachings.

However, when you meditate which is a plausible vehicle to letting go of your ego, you experience pure consciousness and a state of contemplation in the present moment. Meditation and qigong become a spiritual training where you can be in the "here and now" by closing thoughts and opening mind.
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Re: Recreational drugs and spiritual training

Postby fuga on Thu Sep 03, 2009 3:10 pm

grzegorz wrote:Although I might consider dropping for Disneyland. ;)


Actually, from experience, that is a very, very, very bad idea.
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Re: Recreational drugs and spiritual training

Postby I-mon on Thu Sep 03, 2009 4:58 pm

Chris Fleming wrote:"The association of plant medicines with witchcraft and devil worship really seems to be the foundation of the modern "war on drugs""

Naw, the "war on drugs" had nothing to do with religion, but rather was steeped in politics, wars and racism. See the documentary called something like "Drug Wars" or something like that.


You don't think it has anything to do with the systematic attempts to stamp out any such practices by the church, all over the known world, over the course of several hundred years?

I'm not arguing that politics, wars, and racism didn't have a lot to do with it as well.
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