Stunning Musicianship

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Re: Stunning Musicianship

Postby Darth Rock&Roll on Fri Sep 18, 2009 5:23 am

Ian -
No, I am a guitarist/keyboardist/singer-songwriter

I've been in couple of bands and have numerous exchanges through jams and recording sessions with em.

I like to listen to music in all it's forms and expressions. I try to understand as much as I can about everything to do with it.

:)
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Re: Stunning Musicianship

Postby Ian on Fri Sep 18, 2009 5:44 am

PartridgeRun wrote:I totally agree. You know the Planet X piece "Interlude In Milan"? The Planet X outfit totally rips it up in that piece...never losing sight of the melody.


TBH I'm not too familar with Planet X. I've only seen clips of Mr. Donati laying it down in the studio, which is pretty impressive.


bruce wrote:love it

one of the crazy things about them is it is all 4/4 ...


Well yes and no.

Most Meshuggah songs are in simple meters e.g. simple duple or triple, but they contain a ton of syncopation and signature changes.

E.g. the opening bars of Corridor of Chameleons goes

3/4, 2/4, 3/4, 2/4, 3/4, 2/4, 4/4, 2/4 etc.

But the breakdown at 2:45 is straight 4/4 with syncopation.
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Re: Stunning Musicianship

Postby Ralteria on Fri Sep 18, 2009 8:47 am

Ian wrote:
E.g. the opening bars of Corridor of Chameleons goes

3/4, 2/4, 3/4, 2/4, 3/4, 2/4, 4/4, 2/4 etc.

But the breakdown at 2:45 is straight 4/4 with syncopation.



Opening bars are in 4/4 (up to 0:45).

It's easy to miss with the accents. It counts out:

12345 12345 12345 1

or... 1234 1234 1234 1234

If you look at how your broke up the first measure into subsets and then combine them, you'll find that it's 4/4

5 + 5 + 5 + 1 = 16
(3/4, 2/4), (3/4, 2/4), (3/4, 2/4) then change your 4/4 to 1 and the left over is (3/4, 2/4) or the beginning of the next measure.

You just broke up the measures into bars and counted the time out to group the accents into smaller time sigs. I can understand why too, b/c they write music like that on purpose. It's really hard to catch unless you really crunch the numbers hard.
Last edited by Ralteria on Fri Sep 18, 2009 8:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Stunning Musicianship

Postby Dmitri on Fri Sep 18, 2009 8:59 am

4/4, shmour/4... ;D
If you guys want truly complex and intricate stuff, check out Indian classical music.

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Re: Stunning Musicianship

Postby Ian on Fri Sep 18, 2009 9:41 am

Ralteria wrote:Opening bars are in 4/4 (up to 0:45).

It's easy to miss with the accents. It counts out:

12345 12345 12345 1

or... 1234 1234 1234 1234

If you look at how your broke up the first measure into subsets and then combine them, you'll find that it's 4/4

5 + 5 + 5 + 1 = 16
(3/4, 2/4), (3/4, 2/4), (3/4, 2/4) then change your 4/4 to 1 and the left over is (3/4, 2/4) or the beginning of the next measure.

You just broke up the measures into bars and counted the time out to group the accents into smaller time sigs. I can understand why too, b/c they write music like that on purpose. It's really hard to catch unless you really crunch the numbers hard.


;D

Yeah any phrase can be subdivided a number of ways. It's a matter of preference and what's easier to read.

It could be 5/4 (more accurately 3/4+2/4), but then you're left with "1/4"...

It could be in 4/4 x 4, but less easy to keep time at higher bpms if you have to deal with different syncopation between hands and feet. Not saying it's hard, just that it makes life easier to break it down into 3s and 2s.

Compare this to the breakdown at 2:45 where the crash/snare is in 4/4 with the accent on the third beat and so there it makes a lot more sense to count in a simple duple.

Anyway as they say themselves, they never count. This is just some music theory geeking out :)
Last edited by Ian on Fri Sep 18, 2009 9:43 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Stunning Musicianship

Postby Ralteria on Fri Sep 18, 2009 10:12 am

Ian wrote:
;D

Yeah any phrase can be subdivided a number of ways. It's a matter of preference and what's easier to read.

It could be 5/4 (more accurately 3/4+2/4), but then you're left with "1/4"...

It could be in 4/4 x 4, but less easy to keep time at higher bpms if you have to deal with different syncopation between hands and feet. Not saying it's hard, just that it makes life easier to break it down into 3s and 2s.

Compare this to the breakdown at 2:45 where the crash/snare is in 4/4 with the accent on the third beat and so there it makes a lot more sense to count in a simple duple.

Anyway as they say themselves, they never count. This is just some music theory geeking out :)



Heheh ;D. Yeah, I'm a total music geek. However over the years, my own songwriting (as with my martial art) have become more practical and emotional. More real I guess. Music theory (just like MA theory) can be the greatest tool in your tool box until it starts controlling how you play your music, then it's your worst enemy.

The thing about Meshuggah that makes them exceptional is that the music still sounds good. I've written, played, and listened to (overly) technical music for years until I just got so sick of the same cloned technique and sound from so many bands and musicians I was choking on fumes. However the awesome thing about it is that it naturaly appears in my song writing now as opposed to me forcing it into the riffs and songs I write. IOW...look at the break down in "Chameleon". You are bombarded by odd feels for the 2:45 until the middle section...so when the break down kicks in it's about 100% more powerful than if the whole song was like that. 8-) Being able to manipulate feel and emotion inside of music...thats really where it's at. All the theory is just another weapon to use.
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Re: Stunning Musicianship

Postby qiphlow on Fri Sep 18, 2009 9:47 pm

Dmitri wrote:4/4, shmour/4... ;D
If you guys want truly complex and intricate stuff, check out Indian classical music.


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Re: Stunning Musicianship

Postby PartridgeRun on Sat Sep 19, 2009 1:46 am

Dmitri wrote:4/4, shmour/4... ;D
If you guys want truly complex and intricate stuff, check out Indian classical music.


Yes.
I recommend the record "Good people in Times of Evil" with Shawn Lane, Jonas Hellborg and V. Selvaganesh.
Absolutely mindblowing musicianship right there!
The last track on the album, "Uma Haimavati", is hands down one of the most stunning displays of musicianship I've ever heard. The solos are unbelievably beautiful and overflowing with musical genius. Particularly Shawn Lane's guitar solo... the guy truly had an otherworldly understanding and control of his instrument(s).
A very special record. Actually...go buy it now, you won't regret it.
Last edited by PartridgeRun on Sat Sep 19, 2009 2:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
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