The Cross, the Flag and American Idolatry

[Darth Rock&Roll]

interesting:

http://tpjmagazine.us/adams29

[zenshiite]

It's interesting, but shitty writing IMO. The same refrain is repeated incessantly and only a couple statements are made to support those claims. I think it could only really appeal to someone who is already making note of such things and thus cause other examples to arise in the mind of such a reader... but anyone else is probably going to look at it and say "just cuz you say so doesn't make it so."

[Doc Stier]

Surely there must be something in Canada that he could direct his biased attention to instead!

[Darth Rock&Roll]

wassa mattah, hit ya on the uncomfortable bone?

My one comment was "interesting". That is all.

Hey Doc, stop responding to Canadians, we don't care what you have to say.
Try to stick to American only topics ok? thanks.
And only where Americans are talking because the internet is only American for Americans about American topics that are important to Americans only and that should be immune to comments from anybody but Americans.

[Steve James]

One reason that it's usually foreigners to say such things publicly is that it's traditionally been kind of dangerous for a citizen (especially a second-class one) to say them. I didn't read the entire article, probably because it did seem polemical. But, basically, if he's saying that the Nazis were "right wing", not left wing, that's always been true. If he argues that the Southern US until 1960s had laws that had similarities to Nazi Germany's, there's not much to argue. If it's that the people who established and maintained those laws always wrapped themselves in the American flag and the Cross, there's not much debate there either.

The author fails to persuade because he presents it as a conspiracy theory where the "right" are evil, like the Nazis; and that includes their religion. However, there are plenty of Christians on the "left", and plenty of KKKers/Neo-Nazis who are not religious. So, the author offends many of the people he'd hope would listen.

[Doc Stier]

Hey Doc, stop responding to Canadians, we don't care what you have to say.

Hey Darth:

Try following your own advice. Stop posting on American issues. Similarly, "we don't care what you have to say".

"Never try to reason the prejudice out of a man. It was not reasoned into him, and cannot be reasoned out."
Sydney Smith (1771 - 1845)

[Darth Rock&Roll]

Hey Doc:

Follow this advice:
Go find a topic where you don't act like a fuckin whiner when America is brought into question.

[Doc Stier]

Wassa mattah, Darth? Did I hit a sensitive spot?

I gave up any expectations I initially had long ago that you would ever be more than a total jerk on most thread topics. And you certainly haven't disappointed me. But at least you're predictable, and I appreciate that.

[meeks]

1st warning to both you guys before this gets shut down.

[meeks]

LMAO, eh!!

[Darth Rock&Roll]

emotionally reactionsim. whatever.

[Doc Stier]

1st warning to both you guys before this gets shut down.

And that warning was from a Canadian.

I hear ya, boss!

[zenshiite]

I got some perspective on this Canadians chiming in on Americans thing... they are our closest neighbors besides Mexico, and they are a very cosmopolitan population with the highest number of immigrants per capita in the world. They, like anyone that travels extensively outside the US and you know... people who are from other countries, see how the United States' actions effect the rest of the world in ways that Americans rarely see or acknowledge. This was coming from an academic who studies fascism, and fascist history and is an activist coming up with solutions to combat the perceived rise of fascism in the United States. She's currently working out of Canada but was born and raised in rural America. Here's her article: Is America on the Brink of Fascism?

The article also isn't necessarily incorrect, and furthermore, as far as I can tell the author could in fact be a Christian him/herself that is critical of the attachment to symbols as if they had no greater meaning than their own existence. This person could also be a Christian iconoclast, which isn't entirely unheard of in Christianity. The Eastern Orthodox Church in the Byzantine Empire went through a period of iconoclasm as a result of its early encounter with Islam and Muslims; and I'm certain there have been other periods. Certainly Martin Luther's reformation had some degree of iconoclasm.

[edededed]

I think Canadians are pretty reasonable in general - sometimes it is good to hear outsiders' perspectives, too.

[Steve James]

Well, I agree that part of it is simply the fact that the view is different looking from the outside in, or just from a different perspective. I also agree that US ideology is much more 'symbolical' than that of our northern or southern neighbors. And, most importantly, the rest of the world pays attention to us/US; so, that makes us a target.

However, from the historical perspective when it comes to Nazi comparisons, Canadians can always remind us that they did not allow the enslavement of Africans and Americans (forget the white or black labels). In fact, Canada was a refuge from slavery... Not that the Brits can pat themselves on the back when it comes to the treatment of others, including Africans, Asians, Indian natives and European colonials.

Anyway, if Germany had won the war, Hitler would be considered a "Founding Father" of the Third Reich. There'd be holidays every year to celebrate and commemorate him. The Nuremburg Laws would be considered sacred documents, never to be touched or even questioned. Now, imagine the perspective of the Jews who survived on those events. Would there be more critiques coming from inside Germany or from its neighbors?

(Actually, Germany is a bad example. There are laws there against bigotry; and, even though there are people who celebrate Hitler's birthday, there are usually even more people who protest the celebrations. But, Germany is exceptional in that).