Vaccines-an update

[The K Prodigy]

Sure, don't get vaccinated, that's just more vaccine for me.

[grzegorz]

HOLY MOLLY!!!



Normally I'd think this was just another conspiracy theory. But knowing that American troops were given an anthrax vaccine that messed up some of them in the first Gulf War I think we have good reason to have our doubts here.

I imagine most people would be fine, but who knows...?

[grzegorz]

Damn! I just noticed that Alex Jones and inforwars are against the vaccine.



Now I'll have to take it just to prove that they're nuts.

[Darth Rock&Roll]

Chris, I think that view is a little paranoid and irrational.

There's a lot of people who have no clue who are dead set against it because they don't trust their government or their doctor or anyone who is educated or who is an authority on a matter, but they'll listen to bubba jones go on about it and nod like bobble heads.

It's fucking amazing!

I can't really relate to that sort of irrational thought, because, well, it's crazy and the degrees of crazy vary.

[Chris Fleming]

Either that or maybe people are looking at the evidence involved and are making intelligent choices about their OWN health and safely, rather than just simply listening to the talking heads on the TV and doing what they are told to do. Funny thing is that your opinion as shown above is exactly what you are doing: following without question, and ridiculing anyone who does question. You've been trained well. Don't worry, "the authorities" have it all under control. "They" are looking out for you and will show you what to do. For your own good, of course.

[Chris Fleming]

Just something to think about:

How many other things have been once seen as harmless and even recommended by "the authorities" which turned out to be harmful? Things like asbestos, lead in gasoline, people being sprayed by DDT, soldiers being marched into radiation during atomic tests, cigarettes (more doctors smoke Camels, you know), and so on. Are we really so gullible to think that such things can NEVER happen again? That doctors and scientists are and can only be pure? Just something to think about.

[Sprint]

Call me a skeptic, but do drug companies actually have a vested interest in curing any disease? I mean if you look at it from a money point of view, every person cured is a customer lost, and therefore = lost earnings. Surely it is in big pharma's interest not to cure aids, cancer, diabetes, etc but to provide products that manage those illnesses to a point short of a cure, but well enough to significantly extend life, and therefore extend revenue.

In short I really don't think they give a shit about people, so long as they can make money out of them.

[Michael]

Call me a skeptic, but do drug companies actually have a vested interest in curing any disease?

Take it one step further and trace the history of biological/chemical warfare, the pharmaceutical industry (look at IG Farben), and the military industrial complex, then look at the rationale of the CDC and the other bio-chem warfare "research" labs in the US as detailed in the publicly available documentary "The Anthrax War", recently aired on CBC. They openly state they create diseases, included race-specific bio weapons, that could never have existed without their billions in research and years of hard work, all in order to save us from someone using those diseases against us. And yet, in the 20th century, and especially after WW2, we have an onslaught of new diseases for which there are US Army patents, like HIV/AIDS.

[Chris Fleming]

No words can describe how sickening this is.

[Sprint]

I was going to add to the debate about the safety of the vaccine by including research that appeared to demonstrate that in a species of monkey (can't remember what species) babies vaccinated with the H1N1 vaccine failed to develop properly. I can't remember what exactly went wrong but it was brain related.

Anyhoo I see the research is now no longer available to view. So if in a few years time you start to hear about law suits against the makers - you'll know the f*ckers were completely aware of what they were doing.

I've finally found the report which was on a health related forum. So it looks like I got it a bit wrong. It's not the H1N1 virus that they found a problem with but the preservative that comes with it.

Groundbreaking Primate Study Links Mercury Vaccine Preservative to Brain Injury

PR Newswire

10-02-09

NIXA, Mo., Oct 01, 2009 /PRNewswire-USNewswire via COMTEX/ -- Same preservative used in H1N1 Shots Puts Children at Risk for Brainstem Injury

A new study in the leading scientific journal NeuroToxicology lends further credence to parents and scientists concerned about an increasingly aggressive childhood vaccine schedule and toxic vaccine components. A team led by researchers at the University of Pittsburgh found that infant macaque monkeys receiving a single Hepatitis B vaccine containing the mercury-based preservative thimerosal underwent significant delays in developing critical reflexes controlled by the brainstem. The infant macaques that did not receive vaccines developed normally.


Government vaccine guidelines were expanded in 1991 to include a Hepatitis B vaccine for infants within the first few days of life, even though the disease is primarily transmitted sexually or spread through the use of dirty needles. The introduction of the shot was part of a greatly accelerated vaccine schedule that coincides with the drastic increase in autism, which now affects one in 100 American children. Thimerosal was removed from U.S. Hepatitis B vaccines in 2000 but was not recalled from the market and was administered for approximately two more years. It still remains in other vaccines including all multi-dose shots for both the seasonal flu and H1N1.

Current government recommendations for seasonal flu and H1N1 call for pregnant women to receive both vaccines, and children as young as six months to receive as many as four separate flu shots. "This also doesn't take into account that nursing infants may be exposed to additional mercury through breastmilk should both mother and baby be vaccinated," says National Autism Association (NAA) board chair Lori McIlwain. "This study's outcome confirms that such an over-the-top toxic vaccine schedule is an assault on the developing brains of our children."

Specifically, the study found:

-- Thirteen newborn rhesus macaques were given a Hepatitis B vaccine containing a standardized dose of thimerosal adjusted for their weight, four received a saline placebo, and three were not given any shots.

-- Vaccinated animals experienced a significant delay in the acquisition of three survival reflexes compared to unvaccinated animals.

Root, snout, and suck reflexes, critical to animal survival in the wild, were delayed in the vaccinated macaques.

-- These reflexes are controlled by the brainstem, a vital part of the brain that regulates automatic functions such as breathing, heart rate, and intestinal activity.

-- Neonatal responses in unvaccinated control animals were not delayed.

-- The delay in acquisition of three of the four survival reflexes was not contingent on birth weight or gestational age.

For years, parents of children with autism have lobbied government health agencies to conduct research comparing the health of vaccinated children to that of unvaccinated children, and to remove thimerosal from all vaccines. Neither request has been met.

"This study underscores the lack of appropriate government action to ensure the safety of vaccines. Had our government agencies conducted the most basic research on the implications to children's health from the vaccines they rigorously promote, they could have spared thousands of children the neurological injuries they endure today," said Ms. McIlwain. "It's shameful."

[Darth Rock&Roll]

literally millions of people have now received their vaccinations with no ill effects.

yet, some people still point at the ridiculously small fraction of people who suffer from triggered effects or anomalies and throw that out there like a big gorgonzola.

man, you guys should be just as afraid of death too! lol

I regard the swine flu as nothing really serious anyway. It's a vehicle to keep 24 hour newsrooms going and selling ads.
Thankfully they are talking about that instead of terrorist planting bombs scenarios and other such shit.

so, how about the millions who don't have any adverse effects and who do actually prevent themselves from getting the flu?

what about them? are they all wrong?

lol

[Steve James]

So, don't take the vaccine. I don't take the seasonal flu vaccine, but not because it might hurt me. People have negative reactions to every single drug out there, including aspirin and penicillin. The solution is easy. Don't use it.

Now, I am kind of miffed that the NYS govt is demanding mandatory vaccinations for health care workers, who either take it or get fired.

[Darth Rock&Roll]

I don't have a problem with it being mandatory for health care workers.

I see that as part and parcel to duty of care.

It's not mandatory up here, but health care workers are generally the first in line for their shots.

Military people have the mandatory ruling on them though.

[Michael]

According to the article from The Atlantic Tom posted in this thread and I posted in the other, the efficacy of flu vaccines is highly dubious and has never been tested in a double-blind placebo regimen.

For example, during years when there was no vaccine available or when the wrong strain was selected and therefore had no potential at all for efficacy, deaths from the swine flu did not go up or down. No changes. There are many other points made in the otherwise pro-vaccine article for those who are interested in reading and learning.

[Steve James]

I don't have a problem with it being mandatory for health care workers.
I see that as part and parcel to duty of care.

Should, therefore, people who work with food be required to vaccinate or lose their jobs? I mean, handling food for public consumption has some obligations, too. Health care workers are probably far more careful about themselves than the average worker who comes in contact with people. But, I'm against the "get it or get lost" proposition.

Anyway, I'm not against immunizations, innoculations or vaccinations. I think that, ideally, receiving the vaccine in 99% of the cases does no harm, and probably protects a high percentage of those who receive them. And, we should be clear, there's no doubt that this particular flu is killing children at a higher rate than the seasonal flu. So, parents have to decide for themselves. It's on them; I don't think that they should be forced to do it. If they don't, it is true that their children might infect others ... or they might get the disease ...or nothing might happen at all. Who knows? If any child dies, the parents will blame someone.