Vaccines-an update

[Darth Rock&Roll]

yeah food handlers would be a good idea too.

[Darth Rock&Roll]

According to the article from The Atlantic Tom posted in this thread and I posted in the other, the efficacy of flu vaccines is highly dubious and has never been tested in a double-blind placebo regimen.

For example, during years when there was no vaccine available or when the wrong strain was selected and therefore had no potential at all for efficacy, deaths from the swine flu did not go up or down. No changes. There are many other points made in the otherwise pro-vaccine article for those who are interested in reading and learning.

Michael, there is tons of information out there in regards to vaccines.

If you pick and choose what you are going to read about it, then you will form a conclusion based upon that material only.

If you look at the larger body of material on the subject and the greater majority of physicians advisements in regards to inoculations and vaccinations, you will find that your info to the negative can be trashed pretty quickly.

good news is boring, so you won't see it or hear it I guess.

but whatever, don't get your vaccination if you don't want it. No one is forcing you to are they.

for instance, your allusion that a double blind placebo test isn't or didn't take place is categorically wrong.

Those tests take place more often than you think and they are used to not only find out what happens when the vaccine is administered to general public but also to subsets that suffer from other maladies.

for instance, hiv patients are subject to double blind placebo tests for vaccines for influenza. Also, such testing is not available until human trials are underway. So the guy that made that statement did it prematurely and before the human trials had begun.

your info is faulty.

[Chris Fleming]

"No one is forcing you to are they."


....

[Michael]

From The Atlantic, Does the Vaccine Matter?

In Jefferson’s view, this raises a troubling conundrum: Is vaccine necessary for those in whom it is effective, namely the young and healthy? Conversely, is it effective in those for whom it seems to be necessary, namely the old, the very young, and the infirm? These questions have led to the most controversial aspect of Jefferson’s work: his call for placebo-controlled trials, studies that would randomly give half the test subjects vaccine and the other half a dummy shot, or placebo. Only such large, well-constructed, randomized trials can show with any precision how effective vaccine really is, and for whom.

In the flu-vaccine world, Jefferson’s call for placebo-controlled studies is considered so radical that even some of his fellow skeptics oppose it. Majumdar, the Ottawa researcher, says he believes that evidence of a benefit among children is established and that public-health officials should try to protect seniors by immunizing children, health-care workers, and other people around them, and thus reduce the spread of the flu. Lone Simonsen explains the prevailing view: “It is considered unethical to do trials in populations that are recommended to have vaccine,” a stance that is shared by everybody from the CDC’s Nancy Cox to Anthony Fauci at the NIH. They feel strongly that vaccine has been shown to be effective and that a sham vaccine would put test subjects at unnecessary risk of getting a serious case of the flu. In a phone interview, Fauci at first voiced the opinion that a placebo trial in the elderly might be acceptable, but he called back later to retract his comment, saying that such a trial “would be unethical.” Jefferson finds this view almost exactly backward: “What do you do when you have uncertainty? You test,” he says. “We have built huge, population-based policies on the flimsiest of scientific evidence. The most unethical thing to do is to carry on business as usual.”

[Michael]

Vaccine Nation is a 1½ hour long film made by Gary Null, Ph.D. that focuses primarily on the ill effects of giving large numbers of vaccines to babies. It begins with a bit of history of vaccination and then examines the recent epidemic of autism and infant deaths, as well as the case of a Florida man who lost his daughter shortly after vaccination and was falsely accused of "shaken baby syndrome". The film raises important questions about immunization philosophy and practice.

Five minute trailer for Vaccine Nation.

Watch or download the film from google vids.

Vaccine Nation web site

Gary Null's web site

[Michael]

New York State Rescinds Order for Mandatory Vaccinations Among Health Workers

There is a kind of strange twist in the article where they try to make a link between increased demand and limited supply, while simultaneously admitting that enough vaccine simply wasn't manufactured. So it wasn't increased demand, but insufficient production, that is limiting supply.

[Darth Rock&Roll]

they rescinded because of constitutional validity is my bet.

I still think it should be part of the duty of care of healthworker everywhere, never mind just new york state.

anyway, vaccinations are proceeding full speed ahead here, quite a lot done, no ill effects.

care to explain why people aren't dropping like flies? why aren't allthe children suddenly stupified? what's going on boy who cried wolf? where's the wolf you are crying about.

In the end , I hope you folks learn something about what it takes to implement a nation wide plan for health.
I hope you folks don't get so down in the weeds of hating your government. You could always move somewhere else a la the "love it or leave" it clause that so many are ready to hand out when things are how they like them to be.

[Darth Rock&Roll]

jon stewart ~ "It's poison!!! Why isn't there enough?!!"

Michael, you should get that on a t-shirt! lol