Vaccines-an update

[Michael]

Why the need to stay out of public places? If the vaccinations work as advertised, then whoever gets it is immune and need not worry about the germ any longer.

BTW, I was just reading that a 1902 (approx date) US Supreme Court decision upheld the state's authority to forcefully vaccinate and was reaffirmed in 1922. Then again, a prominent doctor during the Revolutionary War wanted an amendment about health care put in the Bill of Rights giving us the right to freedom of choice like freedom of speech. Too bad he didn't get it!

This doesn't need to be a debate about whether or not to have vaccinations in an absolute sense any more than the health care debate should be about whether or not to have doctors. For both doctors and vaccines the problem is a pharmaceutical agenda to turn patients into lifetime sicko customers. The problems with vaccines are all the extra crap that's in there, like mercury, aluminum, squalene, live monkey viruses and invincible monkey cancers.

[Darth Rock&Roll]

the problem with corporate pharmacare is a different issue whole and apart from the idea of vaccinations.

with corporate-pharma, the problem lies in dehumanizing people into piles of dollars to be picked at in context to delivery of healthcare.

driving the bottom line on drug sales is a legislative issue and an investment issue.

If drug companies were managed in an entirely different way on stock markets and as to how they are invested into as opposed to just being plopped into the market pool, it would be an entirely different system.

Capitalism does a lot to drive innovation, but it also does an equal amount of damage to the innovation of others that do not have the backing to proceed.

The problem ain't that we look for solutions in pharmacological care, but that we intrinsically and extrinsically tie it to dollar values instead of human values.

the change has to occur with a wave paradigm shift in regards to the prcatice of capitalism which will not occur so long as society maintains it's me/myself and I model for success and the fact that we all tie our personal value to money.

It is not JUST the system that is ill, it is our collective minds as well.

[Chris Fleming]

"with corporate-pharma, the problem lies in dehumanizing people into piles of dollars to be picked at in context to delivery of healthcare."

And that's what's going on with the vaccines.

[Darth Rock&Roll]

the vaccines don't cost anything.

[Darth Rock&Roll]

... to the person receiving it that is. There is a cost in tax dollars because vaccines are funded out of public coffers. but it's nominal.

i don't understand why people are all to willing to go for risky plastic surgery, shoot botox in their faces and take risky drugs that will give them a hard on or make them ejaculate more, but they won't take a vaccine that could potentially save them from malady and extended illness.

weird. lol

[Sprint]

I was going to add to the debate about the safety of the vaccine by including research that appeared to demonstrate that in a species of monkey (can't remember what species) babies vaccinated with the H1N1 vaccine failed to develop properly. I can't remember what exactly went wrong but it was brain related.

Anyhoo I see the research is now no longer available to view. So if in a few years time you start to hear about law suits against the makers - you'll know the f*ckers were completely aware of what they were doing.

[Azer]

Came across this today... dodgy stuff:

[Michael]

They keep saying "one in a million", but that's an exaggeration because severe side-effect are more common that that. Maybe this particular, rare disease is one in a million, but other auto-immune diseases from the flu shots are much more common than "one in a million".

The flu vaccine is inherently flawed and has massive risks. It contains so-called adjuvants that trigger a hyper auto-immune response so your body will react to the dead virus, and it also contains mercury and/or aluminum, interluken-2, and other dangerous materials. If the person giving the shot doesn't shake the vial every time, you may get a huge dose of these adjuvants when even a small amount can cause serious side-effects.

People who are not at risk from severe problems of the flu, neither very young nor very old, do not need to risk the side-effects of the shot. People who are very young or very old that may suffer if they get the flu are much more susceptible to the adjuvants. Catch 22.

There are also live cancer viruses of many kinds—human, monkey, and some totally unknown—in every flu shot.

[Darth Rock&Roll]

michael, i don't think the us version includes mercury. I don't think the vaccine in the states has adjutants?

encouraging others to not vaccinate is bad advice coming from anyone who is not a medical prac.

Michael, you're not a doctor, you appear to know only what you find on the net and seem to gravitate to the alarmist sites for your info.
I have no idea why you would pursue such a track?

Are you in fact being forced to vaccinate? Is anyone besides military and those couple of states, healthcare workers being held to a mandatory vaccination?

all the stuff you've been saying about this is not coming true, in fact the h1n1 virus is not as bad as it was made out to be.
You were shouting bio warfare not so long ago even though this flu kills no where near the amount of people that regular influenza kills yearly?

are you a victim of your own fears?

[Michael]

Yeah, I appreciate your concerns, but you're pulling stuff out of your ass as usual. If you want to discuss what I actually posted in this thread then be specific. If something from another thread is relevant, maybe you can quote it or link or something so I can see exactly what you're talking about.

You're no doctor either, pot-kettle, etcetera, etcetera. Let's keep the scope of this manageable.

It's the swine flu vaccine in the US that they say won't have mercury. Plenty of mercury-laden thimerosol in the seasonal flu shot. As far as adjuvants like squalene, both the seasonal flu and swine flu have them, which is something I just posted on the China Swine Flu thread.

[Michael]

How to be a swine flu vaccine zealot (satire)

Step 1) Loudly proclaim your vaccines are backed by "science," but when critics ask you to produce that science, just tell them you don't have to because "everybody knows they work." (Then grunt and paw at the air from time to time for effect...)

Step 2) Practice scoffing. Scoffing is an important skill for swine flu vaccine zealots. When someone asks an intelligent question like, "Where are the placebo-controlled studies that show flu vaccines work at all?" simply scoff at them. This avoids having to answer the question because, as you know, there are no such studies.

Step 3) Practice making people feel guilty for not getting the flu shot. Blame them for pandemic. Just ignore the fact that the shot itself has zero ability to actually prevent the spread of influenza and focus on what works: Guilt!

Step 5) Remind people that they are not doctors and therefore don't know anything. Then quote some doctor who's pro-vaccine (and probably taking kickbacks from some pharmaceutical company that's been caught committing a felony crime) and declare that no one can question them because they're a doctor. Doctors are God, didn't you know? Just ask all the victims of thalidomide... or Vioxx.

Step 7) Defend mercury as safe. It's not that bad, really. What's a little mercury in your shot anyway? Ignore these inconvenient facts: A typical flu vaccine shot solution is 50,000 parts per billion of mercury. The EPA classifies any substance with more than 200 parts per billion as hazardous waste. (The EPA limit in drinking water is 2 parts per billion.) Thus, the mercury density in a vaccine is 25,000% higher than the level required to be considered hazardous waste. This is injected directly into the bloodstream of infants, children, expectant mothers and senior citizens. What could possibly be dangerous about that?

Step 9) Tell everyone you're going to receive the flu vaccine yourself, even if you aren't. This creates the impression that you actually believe the vaccine is both safe and effective, even when you secretly suspect it is neither. Of course, no one will really know whether you got the shot or not, so you can still just fake it by claiming you did when you really didn't.

[Darth Rock&Roll]

that's right Michael, I'm not a doctor and therefore any warnings or such that I would trumpet about vaccines or medicine that fall outside of direct research should go unheeded.

The greater majority of doctors working in the healthcare system are urging people to get their shots, especially those who are vulnerable.

People who have other maladies triggered are indeed an oddity and in some cases it is most unfortunate of course, but overall, you save more lives having a vaccination cycle than by not doing it.

[Michael]

Nice article. I just posted it in the China Swine Flu thread.

[Darth Rock&Roll]

guessing at a mortality rate is one thing and it is highly likely that it will change from day to day, month to month, year to year.

However:

Nancy Cox, the CDC’s influenza division chief, says flatly, “The flu vaccine is the best way to protect against flu.” Anthony Fauci, a physician and the director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases at the NIH, where much of the basic science of flu vaccine has been worked out, says, “I have no doubt that it is effective in conferring some degree of protection. To say otherwise is a minority view.”

THAT is key to it all.

[Chris Fleming]

Of course they would say that it is the minority view. D'uh. They have a lot at stake to keep their careers going.

It's no different than doctors saying "Chemo-therapy is the best way to treat cancer. I have no doubt. To say otherwise is a minority view". (when in reality the chemo will probably kill you or at minimum the cancer can be treated without relying on their paradigm)

Maybe it's time to stop trusting every single thing "they" say, every single thing "the authorities" tell us as "accepted truth". There is no pure science; it is all connected to money and politics.