why is dancing so much harder than MA

[bigphatwong]

Take a Capoeira class... you'll get good at both.

[Craig]

Everything,

If it's hiphop you're after, check out some of these people:

Shaun Evaristo <- best hiphop dancer in the world at the moment imho
Nick Bass
Marty Kudelka
Jun Quemado (sp?)
Shitkingz (a japanese group, also known as Shikken)
Patrick Cruz
U-Min

Youtube should find heaps of stuff on all of them. It really depends on what style of hiphop you want to pursue, you've got new school (most of those guys I've mentioned above fit in here), popping, locking, krumping, tutting, liquid, bucking and of course breaking/bboying (an entirely different moster on its own )...the list goes on. They each have their own flavours, but lots of things cross over too.

Some things you can start with are:

Isolations - practice moving parts of your body independently to the rest...start with smaller parts like your hands or elbows, and move on to larger joints like your waist (remember even with your waist keep everything else locked in one spot). A more advanced version (and cooler looking) of this is isolating one part and moving everything else (eg, keep your hand at a certain height while the rest of your body raises or falls, keep your head in one spot while your body moves around it egyptian style). You will definitely need a mirror for this.

Hits - put some music on and tense all the muscles in your body as tight as you can. Hold for 16 counts. do this 4 times. Then continue with the following with a 4 count break in between:
4 x 8 counts
4 x 6 counts
4 x 4 counts
4 x 2 counts
4 x 1 count
4 x 1/2 count

this will give you the "ticking" attribute you see lots of hip hop dancers have. it will also make your moves look far crisper. The trick is, when you arent hitting is to remain deeply relaxed (IMA style! ).

hit me up with a PM if you want some more help

[TaichiMantis]

OHHHH! Love this thread! Tried the partner dance lessons with the hubby a while back...he was always just a little off the beat, drove me nuts! So of course then I would try to lead and...never mind. Just sayin' a good lead is hard to find! A few of my classmates have been doing salsa dancing on their off-class nights. So many guys need to learn to loosen their hips! My off training is zumba class and belly dancing (great for learning how to isolate movement in certain areas of the body).

One of my favorite YouTube subscriptions is Frantaley, a Nicaraguan guy living in So.Cal. He posts CCK TCPM (vietnam flavor) forms and salsa dancing videos. I have to meet this guy some day!

Guys, go to YouTube and search "Zumba Hawaii - Katie Moore" great vids to learn from.



Another Zumba fave of mine is Pitbull's "Calle Ocho" "You know you want me"

[everything]

Craig and Mantis, thanks a lot. I have a lot more homework to do now than I realized. Will be studying all that...

This is really fed off competitive spirit and curiousity about why I can't do it and just curiousity (why would you need to isolate one body part and move everything else expressively around it in MA, except for possibly groundwork). I went with my wife to zumba and considering I don't dance at all, I thought I did ok, but she thinks my moves are hilariously awful (which no doubt they are).

bigphatwong, I tried some capoeira moves from a TV exercise class and found them pretty difficult and my rhythm for that sucked, too. Ideally this all does come back to better body control, somewhat related to better MA skills.

Thanks.

[Craig]

some links of the people i mentioned earlier:

shaun evaristo & the shitkingz:




marty kudelka:


nick bass:




U-min:


[edit] I thought I would just add a little bit more on practice. As with martial arts, you have to be willing/wanting to practice a lot. A portable music player will be valuable for this, but even if you dont have one just hear the songs in your head. I spent many years practicing my gliding (sideways moonwalk) in shopping centres while browsing the isles. Every time I'm waiting for a lift I practice my spins or hits or isolations. I also do a lot of practice in clubs on dance floors...get in early before the crowds arrive. Basically any time you are idle practice something.

Another thing, if you wanna get real good, try a ballet class. This will own your face, but the techniques you will learn are infinitely useful.

[meeks]

coordination and rhythm are to different things

just like writing and spelling are for some guys on this board....

[KEND]

One of my students, who is a professional dancer, said that she found IMA much harder to learn than dance. She learnt more about the functioning of the small muscles, the intent, how a move when applied has to be extremely accurate. Coming from IMA to Argentine Tango I found the physical stepping of Bagua to be very similar[sometimes called 'creeping'] and the sensing of a partners equilibrium similar to body manipulation in MA , hoever the intent is to support, not disrupt.

[Darth Rock&Roll]

to answer why is dancing harder than ma.

dancing requires hours and hours of practice over years to acquire a finely honed skill of co-ordination and rhythmic stepping to music and without music.

However, masturbating anonymously (MA)is learned while very young and requires almost no skill at all.

[Ian]

West Coast Swing, Lindy Hop (also swing!)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cbIuhC6Jey8

Cool. How come most other lindy hop vids look like two people spazzing out (to me at least), whereas this dance is so fluid?

[everything]

West Coast Swing, Lindy Hop (also swing!)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cbIuhC6Jey8

Cool. How come most other lindy hop vids look like two people spazzing out (to me at least), whereas this dance is so fluid?

wow that was very nice. the guy's part looks like it has a bit of "whole body movement" that could transfer from IMA. the lady's part looks ridiculously difficult (but that's ok with me lol). hmm.

[Teazer]

Cool. How come most other lindy hop vids look like two people spazzing out (to me at least), whereas this dance is so fluid?

There's a lot of historical influence going on there. Lindy hop was based primarily off of charleston and tap dance moves, danced to 30's/40's fairly fast big band. Much of the spazziness are idiosyncratic stylistic moves that are have some traditional, rather than necessarily aesthetic value. It was lost and then recovered later so never adapted to the mambo/salsa/soul/funk etc eras that happened in between. There have been a few changes in style since it was re-introduced in the late 80's. Some of those interpretations maybe more up your alley - particularly Minnie's Moochers or Kevin St Laurent & Carla Heiney in the early 2000's.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85tgG7w2eVo&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5uBwm3FjdP0

(as a side note, Max P (who was in the clip you liked) did a parody of one of Kevin & Carla's routines that was good for a chuckle.)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yGaniQwoEiQ
vs the original
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uF56Yt5Kl8Y

On reflection it may also be that more of the lindy you get to see is in competitions, and most lindy competitions unlike in other styles was unchoreographed and tended to use music with much faster tempos to challenge the competitors. That was something that was the case even back in the 30's as well. It's only recently that they've split some of the competitions into slow/med/fast/ultra tempos.

West coast swing on the other hand has been around pretty much continuously since the 40's so adapted to changes in music over the years. It also started out more as a dance the affluent white folk did, or to be charitable, a less dangerous and more systematic way of practicing and dancing that left out amongst other things some of the jerkier movements. Their competitions have always been much more focussed on choreographed dance to slower tempos. There are some pros and cons to that. Also, due to it being around the current generations for longer, the average age of a WCS dancer is probably at least a decade over that of the Lindy folk.

So the Jack & Jill cross over events like in the video are fun - one person well known for West Coast, one well known for Lindy, dance together unchoreographed half the time to a west-coasty danceable song, the other half to a traditional lindy-able swing number. In this case, Max is known mostly for Lindy but kinda from that late 90's era. His WCS is also good. He also teaches a great seminar btw. Jessica Cox is amazing at WCS but at least when this was taken was still a bit shaky with the 30's stylistic stuff.
Here's her more in her element...as you can see it's way smooth - more like ballroom salsa in a lot of ways.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MPA6QDrh-QA&feature=related

[Teazer]

btw, if there were only one reason to dance lindy, it's Nina Gilkenson's swivels.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lKuKWx1OwCI
Best comment ever...
"Nina is hot, geek-hot, but you have got to love it. She would snap Carl like a twig..."