That's a good little doggy

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Re: That's a good little doggy

Postby mrtoes on Tue Nov 17, 2009 3:04 am

Anyone who thinks bowing is a indication of subservience has not spent nearly enough time outside their home country.

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Re: That's a good little doggy

Postby Michael on Tue Nov 17, 2009 3:34 am

Why wasn't the bow reciprocated?
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Re: That's a good little doggy

Postby Darth Rock&Roll on Tue Nov 17, 2009 4:13 am

Dunno why people have a problem with a president who extends courtesy.

Do you really think your president is in the service of Japan?

Because that's laughable.

why is a man an idiot for being courteous and respectful?

Walk softly, carry a big stick. That's the way isn't it?
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Re: That's a good little doggy

Postby Darth Rock&Roll on Tue Nov 17, 2009 4:29 am

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Re: That's a good little doggy

Postby Dmitri on Tue Nov 17, 2009 6:20 am

Good example Darth -- THAT' was an appropriate way to bow. Not going horizontal with your torso AND shaking the hand at the same time.

meeks wrote:
He should have definitely done better research into the culture

yea - I think he stayed up late at night googling around for 'how to meet Japanese royalty' because there's no such thing as an administration to spoon feed him proper information like that.


Apparently he didn't:
...there are different ways of bowing. It depends on the social status or age of the person you bow to. If the person is higher status or older than you are, you should bow deeper and longer. [...] Men usually keep their hands in their sides [...] The most frequent bow is a bow of about 15 degrees.

He's a president. The other guy is older, but their "rank" is certainly "the same", in that case.
It's still a good thing that he did it, sincere or not, but he should have done a better job. It's not that damn hard.
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Re: That's a good little doggy

Postby edededed on Tue Nov 17, 2009 6:41 am

We Americans are often called arrogant by other countries... It's not just TV, I guess...
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Re: That's a good little doggy

Postby edededed on Tue Nov 17, 2009 6:45 am

As for bowing - oh, come on, bowing lower and longer just shows more respect. (It just happens that in Japan, usually people are put into situations where they have to show lots of respect to older/higher ranked people.)

It is true that people in Japan usually bow with their hands to their sides; I guess the emperor of Japan is accustomed to shaking hands with foreign politicians, though, so perhaps he offered his hand first.
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Re: That's a good little doggy

Postby Michael on Tue Nov 17, 2009 6:54 am

When a head of state communicates with another head of state in a formal setting in front of the cameras, it is not like Joe Bob saying hi to Jimmy at the Five and Dime. The communication is almost always planned and intended with a specific purpose. It is not "just a bow", which has been noted since Obama is, I think, the first US Pres. to bow to royalty. Overall, I think it's not a very important thing to take notice of compared to other topics, mostly just another distraction, but the apologists are coming off really naive. And why didn't the Japanese Emperor return the bow? Or the Queen of England? Or King Abdullah?
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Re: That's a good little doggy

Postby Bill on Tue Nov 17, 2009 8:12 am

I still think that it's inappropriate for the President of the United States to bow down like that. He represents our country, not just himself. I think he is in way over his head in foreign affairs. He has no background in it, less than even that Sarah Palin.
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Re: That's a good little doggy

Postby Bill on Tue Nov 17, 2009 8:12 am

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Re: That's a good little doggy

Postby Bill on Tue Nov 17, 2009 9:26 am

This is my understanding of Japanese bowing customs.
from here..http://www.hoshuha.com/blog/japanese-bo ... uette.html

President Obama’s recent trip to Japan caused a stir when he greeted the Emperor with a 90-degree bow. The President’s supporters are claiming that it was protocol, but it most certainly was not. Bowing between equals involves a 45-degree bow. Never does a party on equal terms with the other perform a 90-degree bow. These deep bows are performed by people in inferior positions, for example you will see car salesmen bowing deeply to customers leaving their parking lot. You also see clerks giving deep bows to customers in department stores and students giving deep bows to their teachers. Yes, it is a sign of respect, but it is a sign of respect given by a person in an inferior position to someone else who is in a superior position. Moreover, you do not perform such a bow while shaking someone’s hand. As far as I’m aware, there is nothing offensive about doing so, it’s just not done.
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Re: That's a good little doggy

Postby Chris Fleming on Tue Nov 17, 2009 9:26 am

Just something to consider, for those who think bowing to royalty is just a formality (which is is, LOL): the US was founded by throwing the symbol of its ruling power into the Boston harbor. Sad to see that the cycle is reversing and coming back around again. I'm not calling for disrespect, but a keeping to the things which made our country STAND OUT among nations since its inception, which is the ability to govern without the rule of royalty. Sorry to get a little philosophical with it, but it's something to consider.

In all likelihood, it's just more Obama fakery. Attempting to look one way to the American public and divert attention from who he really is.
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Re: That's a good little doggy

Postby Teazer on Tue Nov 17, 2009 9:32 am

Bill wrote:I think he is in way over his head in foreign affairs. He has no background in it, less than even that Sarah Palin.

now that's just crazy talk ;D
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Re: That's a good little doggy

Postby mrtoes on Tue Nov 17, 2009 9:34 am

Molehill => Mountain :)

We Brits are used to our leaders being a complete joke and stopped taking them seriously years ago ;)
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Re: That's a good little doggy

Postby edededed on Tue Nov 17, 2009 10:13 am

So, um... Where did these people get their "understanding" of Japanese bowing customs?

Politeness in Japan shows itself not only through hierarchy but also via unfamiliarity - in other words, you may bow deeply to your superior but also to an equal that is not in your "circle." For example, a boss will probably not bow deeply to his subordinate or equal at his own firm; however, he may do so when meeting a person from another firm. (It is not set in stone, either; some people are just more polite than others. Also, politeness makes a good impression in Japan, so some people do it for that reason.)
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