That's a good little doggy

[Chanchu]

It not great to WWII pacific theatre combat vets. American or otherwise

[Finny]

It not great to WWII pacific theatre combat vets. American or otherwise

Good lord. Would you say the same thing in the event of seeing Obama smiling and shaking the German President's hand?

Pretty sure WW2 ended a fair while ago. My grandfather HATED the japanese with a passion, as a result of what happened to him and his friends in New Giunea - the Sandakan death marches and whatnot.

But its over and done - we need to move on and there is no justification for rudeness in past hostilities.

[Chanchu]

No Finny it's not the same IMO.

I like Japan like Japanese people but American presidents historically- do not bow down to royalty

"inappropriate for the President of the United States to bow down" agree with Bill.

I have said here before when the subject of Pacific war comes up. The Japanese people alive today had nothing to do with it- I don't believe in collective guilt. Many of those who faught them or who had to live under Imperial rule still have a hard time with forgiving them and will never forget the effects of "Emperorism."

[Finny]

who's "bowing down"?

its the equivalent of shaking hands in western society - simply polite

[Chanchu]

We will agree to disagree.

[Finny]

happily

*bows down*

hahaha

[Chanchu]

[roger hao]

That self-depracation BS was practiced by the first manager I
had on my present job until I fired him LOL.
No one understood it and they then looked down on our team
even while our skill and achievements were solid.

[meeks]

I'd love to see Bill enter a Japanese dojo ... "Fuck you, I'ma Mercan... - I don't bow..."

let's just point out the obvious - you hate Obama and nothing he does will ever draw anything other than blind cynicism from you.
He bowed - what a pussy douchebag - makes all Mercans look bad
he DIDN'T bow - what an arrogant prick - makes all Mercans look bad

He has no background in it, less than even that Sarah Palin.

yea - apparently her knowing Russia is 'in that general direction' is foreign affairs experience

Why wasn't the bow reciprocated?

he's the f-ing Emporor. when the whole room bows (or drops to their knees) does a King reciprocate? Oh, wait - because he's not Obama and therefor not a douchebag pussy by proxy?

in the midst of all this - has he spent years practicing Japanese bows, or was it a 1 time thing? You guys would rag on beginner students for not kicking through the baseball bat on day 1 of training...meanwhile you've never kicked through a bat either.

[klonk]

As a protocol moment, Obama screwed another pooch, not only with hometown America, but with the Chinese.

We Yanks always have protocol problems with the Japanese. On one occasion, I was welcoming a Japanese who was nominally my subordinate but obviously older. I bowed, hands at sides, at the same moment he extended his hand to shake. I straightened up and put out my had as he bowed.

We never did get along.

[meeks]

hhmmm... I wonder if his Japanese friends gave him crap for doing a North American greeting - that would be funny.

[edededed]

No, it is customary in Japan to shake hands with foreigners... They also tend to call foreigners by their names in first, last order, while they call themselves last, first order.

[internalenthusiast]

We Yanks always have protocol problems with the Japanese. On one occasion, I was welcoming a Japanese who was nominally my subordinate but obviously older. I bowed, hands at sides, at the same moment he extended his hand to shake. I straightened up and put out my had as he bowed.

We never did get along.

of course i wasn't there, but i'm sorry y'all didn't get along. it sounds potentially like an "after you alphonse" moment, with potential for laughter? but maybe there were other issues at stake.

on a slightly different note:

my family had some japanese kids live with us for a while when i was little. they were in the US to study the suzuki violin method. i liked them. of course i had to listen to variations of twinkle twinkle little star ad nauseum on the violin. but they did play pretty much in tune.

the main thing i remember is that they wanted to eat rice with jam on it for breakfast. weird, i thought, but kinda cool. they were very disciplined, but also very friendly.

my family also had some shansi/shanxi program involvement, which supports intercultural educational opportunities between the US and asia, based on mutual respect and understanding. i was too young at the time to get all the implications, but am glad for the early sense that mutual growth and respect between cultures is a very real possibility. and in these times, i think a necessity.

when i was last in china, i was among other things teaching a workshop at nanjing university. there was a group of chinese students there who were actively working with some students from japan to create a multi-media piece based on sino-japanese relations and history, including the rape of nanjing. i really respected the efforts of those chinese students, and the japanese students. it's no small thing, when one considers their history. they were trying to mend something.

one of the things i appreciate about my childhood (and particularly my mom's influence) is that i always felt people were welcome in our family, regardless of their backgrounds. so i had as a kid, black friends, chinese friends, japanese friends, mexican friends, etc. and there was never any judgment, on the basis of culture or color. we were taught that people do things differently, but that was part of how the world works.

given all this, somebody bowing doesn't cause me concern.

[DeusTrismegistus]

The president should only bow before engaging in mortal combat. That should be a new amendment to the constitution.

[Bill]

I'd love to see Bill enter a Japanese dojo ... "Fuck you, I'ma Mercan... - I don't bow..."

and I don't eat with sticks...


But seriously folks...
I've probably bowed more than most people here, in my martial art training, so I'm hardly anti bowing or bowing traditions.