The Employee Meeting

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Re: The Employee Meeting

Postby Teazer on Thu Nov 26, 2009 1:22 am

chud wrote:LOL at Teazer's double-speak..."collateralized revolving loan's"...debt is debt.


Yes, bank loans are also a form of debt. Most small to midsize companies rely on bank loans rather than other forms of debt for such spending. Public debt is too costly at that scale and takes too long. Private debt is unlikely to be used for most working capital needs or payroll since it is unpredictable as a source of funds, though it might be used for investments like opening a new store. Bank loans are often in the form of a flexible (ie "revolving") line of credit collateralized on the company's inventory, accounts receivable etc. i.e. a "collateralized revolving loan", "asset backed line of credit" or any of a bunch of names. An alternative is, as you say, just retaining earnings within the company to fund working capital and investments, or hold as cash, which some companies choose to do, particularly if they don't mind slower growth.

Since the diatribe ommits such choices, let's leave it that the person in the story is either being a monumental dick or he's faking the financial health of the company. Neither should be the basis of sound public policy decisions.
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Re: The Employee Meeting

Postby bailewen on Thu Nov 26, 2009 2:45 am

I'm going with "monumental dick".

My heart fucking bleeds for the tax burden or some "schmuck" with a succesfull chain of 12 stores.

"Small" businessman my ass. Legally yes, but in any way that is going to elicit sympathy...not by a long shot. Maybe he'll have to suffer through life with only 2 cars instead of 3 or he'll only be able to afford to purchase a house in Glendale rather than Palos Verdes like he wanted.

He's already admitted to making half a million in a single year and now he expects a blue collar worker to feel his pain?

Are you high? Keep $100,000 for yourself and invest the other $400,000. The "paltry" hundred grand is already more than roughly 90% of all American's. He's in the top 10%.

Biggest worthlehss crybaby I have heard from in years....if he was even real which he's not apparently, just a piece of right wing propoganda.
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Re: The Employee Meeting

Postby Darth Rock&Roll on Thu Nov 26, 2009 8:54 am

less than the top 10% actually.

Latest number on american workers who earn 100k or more is less than 6% of the total workforce.
Family income of over 100k is about 15% of workers.

which is indicative of an extremely healthy economic force in the middle classes despite recession doom and gloom.

I suspect we'll see a dip in that number for 2009 seeing as the amount of people out of work rose considerably in the last year alone.
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Re: The Employee Meeting

Postby Steve James on Thu Nov 26, 2009 9:54 am

I think it's often hard to judge based solely on the income numbers. I live in NYC and I'm ok, but nowhere near wealthy. If I made the same in San Antonio, I might be considered well off. That's especially true when it comes to "family" income. It's not hard to find couples earning more than 100K in NYC. It's almost a necessity. 250K is much different, imho. Sure, I still couldn't afford to live in Trump Towers, but don't cry for me Brangelina.

But, I don't know how hard I'd come down on people who would be upset that they might have to lower their standard of living. It's all relative. If I drive a Maybach, a Mercedes is a demotion. That's where I think the perspective of this essay/blog works, or attempts to. It targets (almost) everyone's agreement that wanting more --or not wanting less-- is universal. So, the boss appeals to his employees to understand "his" position. They all want homes as nice as they could be, etc. So does the boss. Now, he could have argued that the administration was planning to raise everyone's taxes. Well, maybe the fact is that his employees' taxes might actually be reduced. Instead, he argues that because his taxes will be raised, the employees will be the ones to suffer.

I don't know about the proposed Carrington business, but when he talks about $40K+ per store, I wonder what his employees at the stores make, and how many employees are at each store. Do that make 1/2 of his percentage? That'd put them 1/2 below the national median; whereas, he'd make 12 times the national median. He's threatening (some of) them with whatever they make or unemployment. Seems kind of harsh.
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Re: The Employee Meeting

Postby DeusTrismegistus on Thu Nov 26, 2009 10:53 am

This thread sickens me. Honestly my father owns a small business. I worked for him for the past 11 freaking years, working in the field with his employees. The vast majority of small business owners care about their employees and try to do the best by them they can. Right now many many businesses are on the verge of closing their doors. A lot of businesses only see 5% profit or less. A 5% tax increase can be huge. Anyone who is an S corp pays huge amounts of taxes. S corp laws are also different than C corp, but even in a C corp money that is plowed back is done after taxes but before dividends.

I have literally been to hundreds of businesses in Dayton in the last 2 years trying to sell work. Nearly all of them qualify as small businesses; small factories that have 100 employees, places that do plating, custom car work, build modular homes, etc. They are all hurting right now just like my fathers business is. Health insurance has been increasing over 15% a year, we currently cover half for employees and they still pay $100 a week for a family. Increasing taxes right now WILL hurt everyone. If its a choice of closing a business or reducing costs you reduce costs. Small business owners already have plans in place to deal with Obama tax increases. They have since he got elected. If taxes go up employers will be left with choices not just between continued expansion and creation of jobs vs not doing so, they will be looking at having to reduce costs or shut their doors. It will be stop paying healthcare or pay the 8% tax that will be levied, and the 8% tax will usually be less than healthcare since it can be upwards of 25% of payroll. I already have friends who work for companies who haven't given out a single pay increase in 3 years because of the economy.

Tax increases WILL roll down hill and it won't be because business owners are greedy. Many have already cut their own pay to the point of barely paying their own bills. It will be because they will have to cut expenses or die, and the jobs they provide with it.And don't judge a business owner for doing what it takes to stay in business, they have a family too, if their business goes under all their employees lose their jobs and so do they.

I am fucking scared to death my Dad will lose his company because of this bullshit. I volunteered to be laid off before anyone else to cut his overhead so other people could fucking work. Thousands of fucking people are in the same fucking position all across the country right now. God I just hope it doesn't come to that.

I gotta go eat a turkey.
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Re: The Employee Meeting

Postby Darth Rock&Roll on Thu Nov 26, 2009 11:06 am

That's not the point really.

the point of this story is that it is fabricated to present a false argument against a government that has not raised your taxes and isn't responsible for the current recession.
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Re: The Employee Meeting

Postby fuga on Thu Nov 26, 2009 11:31 am

It's also interesting to note delinquencies of some existing California businesses in paying their taxes. It provides them with an unfair advantage over those businesses that actually pay their taxes.

http://www.boe.ca.gov/cgi-bin/deliq.cgi
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Re: The Employee Meeting

Postby Michael on Thu Nov 26, 2009 3:37 pm

Those businesses in California should just send in some hand drawn spiders as IOU's like the government has been doing in the other direction, sans spider.
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Re: The Employee Meeting

Postby bailewen on Fri Nov 27, 2009 6:13 pm

Deus,

While I can understand the concerns you raised it's not really relevant to the article beyond the fact that you both are afraid of tax increases. In the imaginary business described in the article, in contrast to you dad and his family business, the owner is in no danger of going under whatsoever. In fact, he's 40 stores strong and his only "fear" is that he won't be able to expand as fast as he wanted. He's making over half a million dollars a year and where you volunteered to lay yourself off rather than cut into employee income, this imaginary guy is threatening his entire workforce with pay cuts if the taxes increase...even though he could still take home half a mil for himself each year.

His "sob" story is that during this global recession, he can't open his 41st store without cutting into his half a million dollars of income. :P
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Re: The Employee Meeting

Postby Muad'dib on Fri Nov 27, 2009 10:17 pm

I have only one thing to say about the posting.

Most small business owners do not chose S-corps, for tax reasons. If the gentleman in question did so, he might simply want to consider the simple expedient of reorganizing his corporate structure. Instead of acting like a bitch.
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Re: The Employee Meeting

Postby fuga on Sat Nov 28, 2009 1:26 pm

/thread
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