18 more months and 30,000 more troops

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Re: 18 more months and 30,000 more troops

Postby Dmitri on Wed Dec 02, 2009 1:17 pm

That's because yes, he can.

What else is new.

[Cue the people whom he attracted by his empty anti-war promises, finding excuses for the man...]

They are all the same.

There were two or three in this last election who weren't (like Paul and Kucinich) but the rest are, have always been, and will always be, there for fame and glory and power and spotlight and money and power and fame and self-admiration. Did I mention power?

Fuck them all. >:( :'( Image
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Re: 18 more months and 30,000 more troops

Postby Teazer on Wed Dec 02, 2009 1:32 pm

Anyone have any idea how the overall US troop levels for both Afghanistan and Iraq have changed over time?
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Re: 18 more months and 30,000 more troops

Postby Bill on Wed Dec 02, 2009 1:33 pm

I love the scheduling of the troop pullout just as he's up for re-election.
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Re: 18 more months and 30,000 more troops

Postby Doc Stier on Wed Dec 02, 2009 1:36 pm

Dmitri wrote:That's because yes, he can.

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Barack Obama, Super Hero! ;D
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Re: 18 more months and 30,000 more troops

Postby qiphlow on Wed Dec 02, 2009 1:46 pm

:P :P :P :P :P
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Re: 18 more months and 30,000 more troops

Postby The K Prodigy on Wed Dec 02, 2009 1:48 pm

Dmitri wrote:[Cue the people whom he attracted by his empty anti-war promises, finding excuses for the man...]


You're mixing wars, he was always pro-afghan war, don't believe me, look at his campaign shit. Of course, youre probably not going to do that, so here.

Bill wrote:I love the scheduling of the troop pullout just as he's up for re-election.


July '11. He'll have been in office for 2 years and 6 months. That will be 3 months away from the campaign season, and a year before the vote actually takes place.
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Re: 18 more months and 30,000 more troops

Postby Darth Rock&Roll on Wed Dec 02, 2009 2:44 pm

Fuckin about time in my opinion.
Let's get afghanistan done and over with, get that country back to the afghans and get the fuck outta there so we can normalize trade and diplomatic relations.

Good for Obama, he did what Bush should've done 7 years ago almost. Afghanistan push. Iraq? What the fuck is America doing in Iraq again? Why are they still there? oh yeah, they created a power void that Cheney predicted would happen back in 94 when he was asked why they didn't take Saddam out then.

Finally, we can get some more holes into Taliban heads and get our guys home!
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Re: 18 more months and 30,000 more troops

Postby Dmitri on Wed Dec 02, 2009 4:29 pm

The K Prodigy wrote:
Dmitri wrote:[Cue the people whom he attracted by his empty anti-war promises, finding excuses for the man...]


You're mixing wars, he was always pro-afghan war, don't believe me, look at his campaign shit. Of course, youre probably not going to do that, so here.

Fair enough, but 30,000 is just a tiny little bit more than 7,000, no?

Oh, yes, of course, -- he's intending to "win" this one, right. ::)

How many wars like that were a) ever "won" by anyone, and b) ever "won" by the US?

In the immortal words of Sting, "history will teach us nothing". :-X

Moving right along...
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Re: 18 more months and 30,000 more troops

Postby Doc Stier on Thu Dec 03, 2009 8:24 am

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Re: 18 more months and 30,000 more troops

Postby qiphlow on Thu Dec 03, 2009 1:32 pm

Afghanistan, 1979-90, 1998, and 2001-present: The United States began secretly arming Islamist rebels fighting the leftist government of Afghanistan in July 1979. According to former National Security Advisor Zbigniew Brzezinski, the decision to aid these fundamentalist militias was based in part on the hope that it would provoke the Soviets to invade, which they did that December. U.S. support for Islamist rebels dramatically increased in the coming years, with 80% of the aid going to the Hekmatyar faction, the most extremist of the seven major mujahadin factions fighting the Soviets and their Afghan allies. The reason for wanting to encourage a Soviet invasion and to support the opposition group least likely to compromise was the hope that the Soviets would be bogged down in a debilitating counter-insurgency war, which would thereby assist America�s Cold War aims. Soviet forces withdrew in 1989, but U.S. support for Hekmatyar continued and a coalition of mujahadin groups ousted Afghanistan�s leftist government in 1992. Not satisfied with the Islamic coalition government that resulted, Hekmatyar forces shelled the capital of Kabul, killing thousands of civilians and making a stable government impossible. Out of the ensuing chaos rose the Taliban militia, which seized power in 1996 and imposed a theocratic fascism upon the country. The Taliban allowed use of its territory by the Al-Qaeda network, which served as the base of operations for a series of terrorist attacks against Americans in Africa, the Middle East and finally in the United States itself. Had the United States not supported the extremist Hekmatyar faction and instead backed efforts by the United Nations and others to bring a peaceful settlement to the Soviet occupation and civil war, Afghanistan could have a established a stable government many years earlier and the Taliban would have never come to power.


from here:
http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0210-07.htm
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Re: 18 more months and 30,000 more troops

Postby Darth Rock&Roll on Thu Dec 03, 2009 2:37 pm

hindsight is pretty much meaningless at this point though wouldn't you say?

It's not that there is evil. It's that not many people are willing to do anything about it.

Afghanistan needs to be dealt with, stabilized and returned to normal diplomatic and trade relations.
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Re: 18 more months and 30,000 more troops

Postby zenshiite on Thu Dec 03, 2009 3:39 pm

^Afghanistan is going to chew up and spit out these 30,000 troops. Learn from the British Empire and the Soviets people.
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Re: 18 more months and 30,000 more troops

Postby Chris McKinley on Thu Dec 03, 2009 4:19 pm

Does it really take 30,000 more troops to eliminate every living human in the Afghanistan/Pakistan border region? ???
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Re: 18 more months and 30,000 more troops

Postby Dmitri on Thu Dec 03, 2009 4:30 pm

That's not what they want Chris. I don't think the US ever fought a war like that. It's always (after WWII that is) been half-assed, to one degree or another. (I'm not talking about the soldiers obviously -- I'm talking about the politicians.)

Looks like either the generals cannot do war properly (which is hard to believe, given the resources), or (much more likely) the reasons for all these recent wars have nothing at all to do with what people are told via official channels.

zenshiite wrote:^Afghanistan is going to chew up and spit out these 30,000 troops. Learn from the British Empire and the Soviets people.

History will repeat itself. And again. And again... It's not because they're stupid, I believe it's because the reasons for these wars are not what we're told.
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Re: 18 more months and 30,000 more troops

Postby Strange on Thu Dec 03, 2009 5:52 pm

i am sure present company understands.
but i do believe that a vast majority of ppl who are concerned about afghan think that it is a conventional shooting war; or at least
the enemy can be clearly and easily identified and dealt with using (in this case) superior technology and fire-power. but it is simply
not the case:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counter-insurgency ( i find the section on martin van creveld to be particularly insightful)

as an example, i find wanat particularly disturbing - a very clear case of bad command decision to station troops in a surrounded valley
was explained as a case small arms failure to perform in challenging condition (in this case the M4). later, official army channel denied
that abandoning the station did not amount to an surrender of their position in the region.

for me it raises the question of what info was reported up the chain of command, what sort of info the commanders are basing their
tactical/strategic decisions on; and are the ppl there really seeing thing as they really are.
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