english defence league = nazi fucks

[Interloper]

Michael,
Major correction. You're confusing the Anti-Defamation League (ADL) -- a humanitarian organization that addresses not just anti-Semitism, but all forms of bigotry, with intercultural and interfaith activities -- with the Jewish Defense League (JDL) -- a bunch of hyperparanoid nutjobs and miscreants akin to the "football hooligans" Yusuf refers to in the EDL. Same level.

Don't mix up the two. ADL is not a hate group in any way. JDL is a mix of haters and well-meaning-but-nutty people, and as a whole is a disgrace.

Michael, there has been no Nazi party in Canada since the early 70's when it was disbanded.
Also, NO hate groups are tolerated in Canada. People have been arrested and deported for holocaust denial in Canada.
Anyone found to be promoting or supporting hate groups in Canada can look forward to being arrested.

Yes, that's how free speech was killed in Canada, by the ADL sponsoring hate groups to make incendiary comments and so on. It's not difficult to get young, unemployed men roused into gangs wherever they may be found to serve a hidden agenda that is the exact opposite of what you say in public.

The bnp are sponsoring the edl... this is not some pie in the sky lizard bullshit Michael, I spent a good part of my youth getting the shit kicked out of me by racists, conspiracy theories will not stop these fukkers.

Don't know what you're on about, I'm sympathetic to you, just offering my opinion about what is happening. Fighting morons in the street won't get you very far, so cut off the head.

[zenshiite]

*snip*

You want to talk about culture-less... Americans practically have no culture. Just fucking shopping malls.

What do you think pop music is? Why are kids in South Africa grooving to Michael Jackson, why do Jordanian girls like Britney Spears? Why do so many people wear blue jeans?

Americas biggest export is it's culture. Movies, clothing, fashion, music, you name it culturally and you will find American style culture EVERYWHERE.

But I think Rammstein (a german band) says it best with this video:

consumerism =/= culture

[The K Prodigy]

consumerism =/= culture

Alright then, define culture. Then we can judge whether America has culture on your own merits.

[Steve James]

Whoa ... hold up. "America" is a big place with lots of people. Many of those people are European ... imports. We even have a place called New England, but that's beside the point. Not even the fact that there were many cultures here long before Europeans "discovered" it or the fact that they brought people here from other continents with many more cultures is important. All human beings have culture. It may be somewhat true that USAmericans have a consumer culture, but I'd say --even if true-- that it was invented by Europeans, just not in Europe.

I can agree that Americans have plenty of negative traits: the ugly American is real. However, I completely disagree that the only or primary American culture that is adopted globally is consumerism or economic culture. I would say that I never saw people imitate American style-culture so well as in Europe. Otoh, it's clear that the women in Madrid, Berlin, Rome and Paris all have their own "styles" that are common where they are. But European guys often go nuts for American women. To each, his own. But, it's not like there is no culture there. True, the quality of coffee, bread and cheese --alas-- is not the same; and it's too true that American yellow Velveeta is nasty --- .... except in grandma's macaroni and cheese...--- but it's still culture. The same with root beer. I've found it works on Europeans like garlic works on vampires. ... just sayin'

But, seriously, imho, the US is one of the few producers (along with Japan) of global "culture" in the popular sense. In Europe, just turn on the tv and you'll see Baywatch. Now, that ain't my "culture", but ya'll eat the Hasselhoffman up. That is not our fault.

[Interloper]

Dang. Where's the Flash graphic of Hasselhoff's head emanating ad infinitem from his ... er... Speedos? Doc Stier will post it any moment know, I'm certain.

[GrahamB]

For some reason my local town seems to have adopted Nicholas Cage who loves it here since it as culture and history he couldn't ind in the US.

pah America! Take that! 1 - 0 !

http://www.thisisbath.co.uk/news/Nicola ... ticle.html



p.s. he was gone in 60 seconds...

[Harvey]

That is outstanding we only had Bob the Builder

[yusuf]

..and we had drunken essex slappers hoisting their knickers onto random strangers heads..

[Harvey]

Girls Aloud or the Saturdays?

[Andy_S]

SNIP
I think it's a very fine line between wanting to preserve cultural identity and being a nationalist twit.
SNIP

A rather smart piece of thinking there, Steve.

When people talk about the joys of Morris dancing, real ale and ham and egg pies - and how this is all threatened by a flood of fanatical Musselmen from East of Suez - I am tempted to quote that well-known humanitarian and do-gooder Goering who (reportedly) said: "When I hear the word "culture" I reach for my revolver." There again, a more all-encompassing definition of culture is not cultural artefact or high-end art, but simply "learned behaviour."

Bearing that last definition in mind:
I sympathise with Yusuf and share his distaste for these thugs - but have to say that with both the US and the UK having suffered Islamic terrorist attacks....and both being engaged in rather unpleasent wars against a predominantly Muslim enemy....I think it is rather to the credit of their respective cultures that there has NOT been a significant backlash against their Muslim minorities in recent years.

Unless this is the start of it...

[Harvey]

Andy I think i must retort here, it's not the immigrant population that's threatening the morris dancing, real ale or leather on willow it's the bloody ingrate footie fans with their "two world wars and one world cup" attitude, it's not really what Robin Hood ro King Arthur were all about and i'm sure Wat Tyler is spinning in his grave. I think that the lack of a defined English identity is only making things worse, moreover what the Sun or worse Daily Mail portray as it. Either that or get it redefined for the future, I remember when i lived in Birmingham because of it's massive ethnic diversity i felt really at home because of the local Irish bar, even tho it was next door to a curry house and a kebab shop.

[Interloper]

The US and European media portray and show only selected segments of American society, and that's why you see only the Ugly American or some kind of whitebread "culture." The narrow view of American life as upscale suburban or violent urban ghetto will not give you a full view of America.

Keeping in mind that the U.S.A. is a nation of immigrants and sons of immigrants, look to regions to get a better picture. The Midwest, with it's many communities of German and Scandinavian descendents have a different worldview than the yuppies living in a SoHo loft in Manhattan. In Appalachia, there are pockets of people of Gaelic/Celtic descent who still speak a dialect directly related to 18th-century Scots. Their music and dance have found their way to the "periphery of mainstream," and they are often denigrated as "hillbillies," but they have a unique culture all their own. Likewise, the French-Canadian descendents of Acadia (the "Cajuns") who have their own cuisine, music, dances, and dialect. There are even remnants of the 19th-century immigrant hordes of Jews from Eastern Europe, who brought Klezmer music (a mix of Semitic-Middle Eastern and Roma/"Gypsy" traditions), a dialect (Yiddish) and cuisine and other cultural trappings with them that have mixed into the fabric of American society. Or, the rich African influence that, despite its origins in slavery gave rise to a huge, encompassing cultural contribution of popular and liturgical music, literature, dance, poetry, cuisine and you name it. This is just a small sampling of the cultural stewpot here.

Don't be mislead by TV and movies to think that everyone is blond, rich and loud, and whose idea of culture is the latest "Pink" cd and a venti mocha latte with steamed 2% milk.

[Steve James]

Yeah, even in the most "whitebred" town in the U.S. probably has a pizza shop (though it ain't really Italian pizza), a Chinese restaurant (even though egg foo young and chow mein aren't Chinese), and you can probably get a kebab or falafel (also unauthentic) in the grocery store. It's way more culturally diverse in Brooklyn than in most cities I've been to outside of the U.S.

The "cultural" difference between the U.S. and Italy, say, is that in Italy there are many regional differences that don't overlap. You can't buy a canoli in the north of Italy. You won't find tomato sauce on Roman pizza, but you might in Salerno. In the U.S., we think of pasta when we think of Italy but, there, many peoples' staple is rice or potatoes. The difference in the US is that you can find a deli --with tuna salad, potato salad, coca cola, bologna sandwiches and fried chicken-- anywhere in the country. But, that's because a big part of our cultural identity is and derives from our penchant for travel.

Anyway, the U.S. invented multiculturalism as a culture ... 'E Pluribus Unum' and all that. England, later, adopted that idea/l; and that's part of the problem (illustrated in the thread).

[Harvey]

I think you've hit the nail square on the ead there. In terms of American "culture" it is the collision of cultures that have created some wonderful fusions, blues, jazz, hip-hop, comic books to name just a few, they may not all be seen as "high culture" but the true cultural heart is in the folk music, the music of the people. Now I love Gershwin but Robert Johnson is much better barometer of AMERICA.
To add another thing to the debate I've always been a fan of bluegrass and there is a huge scene in Ireland simply because of the Irish folk music influence upon it. Kinda like the musical equivilant of the Irish-American guy visiting the old country we're more than happy to have our american cousin around to stay.

[zenshiite]

My dad's a banjo picker, and his mother's maiden name is McCoy, but he just does not vibe on traditional Irish tunes. I do, and it's through Irish music that I came to have an appreciation of bluegrass.

The thing about American culture is that white people especially, I think, often feel adrift because for a couple hundred years now individual cultural roots amongst white people have intentionally been suppressed in the US. Appalachians, for instance, have Irish/Celtic roots but they are pretty well detached from them at this point. Alot of groups are like this, with enclaves of Italian, and Irish and Polish and few other groups of Euro descent. For the most part, however, anyone of European descent have been made to have this sort of amorphous "white" identity and elements of heritage have been bastardized and watered down. And mashed together, and that often leaves white Americans feeling somewhat disconnected from themselves and the world and history.

Now, the same can easily be said about African American identity and a sort of amorphous "black" identity where-in distinctions between tribal and regional origins in Africa have been nullified. And that's no doubt true. But in some sense the amorphous "black" identity also has a more pronounced culture all its own that I don't think the "white" identity necessarily does. Which is part of the reason many young white people try desperately to adopt a stronger culture - whether that's what they perceive as black American culture or attempt to embrace a culture they are genetic connected to but have no experience of. Which often leads to a kind of mockery of whatever they are trying to imitate. That search for culture, for tradition, is often mixed in with embracing a new religion but is ultimately distinct from it. Speaking as someone who has converted to an "alien" religion, ultimately one realizes that it's necessary to create your own traditions even within the religious context because it's impossible to embrace the cultures that are normally associated with your chosen religion.

Make much sense?