thankyou

[downwardspiral]

thankyou to everyone who responded. got to luv those shin kicks

[Dmitri]

So you threw the first shot? Not good IMHO...

I ain't no expert on this though, so let's wait till the legal pros weigh in.

As for "protocols"... I dunno but personally what I would do is instead of "what you want to kick off here?!" I'd try to wind things down, maybe play to his ego a little bit. Deescalation (or at least a reasonable attempt at deescalation) of this sort of thing can go a long way.

[Steve James]

Re: self-defense, if he was your size or bigger, generally they'll accept that you thought you were in danger. Then it depends on whether there was (or he claims) any damages. If he was a wee little guy and you're a bruiser, the self-defense angle might not work. But, if he was just hot-headed and feels he was in the wrong, then nothing to think about. However, we (citizens) are generally not allowed to hit people first without legitimate (or reasonable) provocation. So, it'd be best if he just chalks it up to a bad experience and learns from it. Each situation is different, so you may have done what was necessary. Only you know for sure.

[Darth Rock&Roll]

You need to work on deescalating verbally.

You need to work on regulation of your emotions.


There are numerous places and programs where you can do this.
Physical violence is an absolute last resort.

Verbal skills are what you need to train more.

P.S I've worked the door at a few establishments now and learned that your voice and manner have far more power in an altercation than your fight training does in a physical encounter.

the very fact that he was presenting is the first clue that you can de-escalate the situation quickly with an even temper and a soft voice.

What you have now, is a possible assault charge, a memory that traumatized your kid and a wife who is going to question if she can trust confronting you with something now?

Think man.

[DeusTrismegistus]

Legally it may be a squeeze but if your wife and kids felt threatened too you have a much better argument. You also have the fact that he came to your car to help you out.

Verbal de-escalation would have been better but since that happened you should look back and see what you can learn from it. My first question would be why did you put yourself in a position where you couldn't see him get out of his car and approach?

[Plante]

To use the wise words of Marc MacYoung :

Not to put too fine of a point on it, but seeking a simplistic answer to a complex issue is going to
a) Cost you a lot of money
b) Make someone else a lot of money
c) Get you raped in prison.

Let's hope, for you, he don't follow with the charges.

[Sprint]

One thing I think most (generally speaking) law abiding martial artists are not yet fully aware of is the proliferation of CCTV. I am willing to bet that there is a CCTV at this market, if there is, then you may have some explaining to do.

[Teazer]

While I agree that skills in verbal de-escalation would've been a handy thing right there, when we get down to it you're okay & the family's okay, & sounds like the other guy's got no lasting injury - all of which is certainly better than a lot of alternatives. Unless there were a bunch of hostile witnesses around, the other guy will have the devil's own job trying to prove you started it. Hopefully the family see you as more of a hero than anything to be traumatized over.

As far as what 'professionals' do. My limited experience of doing bouncing was much more to do with fight avoidance and moving people off-premises and certainly didn't involve escalating the fight to the level of crippling as you mentioned. It's just not in the business's interests. Similarly with law enforcement types who's emphasis is more on restraining and control.
If he had a weapon, you'd be better off ditching the shopping, all getting in the car and driving off (while calling the cops - who would be more likely to shoot him at that stage if he tried using it).

[cerebus]

I dunno. Going with the details provided, it sounds to me like you could be in alot of trouble. I was a law enforcement officer for a number of years and what you did sounds like assault and battery. The best defense you might have is fearing for the safety of your wife and child...

[downwardspiral]

some good points , thankyou. " verbal de escalation " would have been the way to go i think, although by the time i realised there was anything to de escalate we were a fair way down the path.
probably gonna get in trouble, but i wont grizzle.
looking back on past incidents, verbal de escalation would be a usefull tool.
also dont think shin kicks work unless your very very good

simon

[downwardspiral]

just been re reading your replies-- thanks for taking the time. s

[downwardspiral]

i think mentally i was stuck defending my position.
next time i'll let him have it.
or knock him out when he winds down the window. s

[Michael]

I think this is a minor incident, but if anyone wants to discuss publicly an event that could be litigated later, definitely do it under a pseudonym and don't give any revealing details. Anything you say online is recorded and could be used against you in court. IP records are also a consideration: think proxy and bizarre account name used only for that thread. Better yet, it's really questionable whether to discuss something publicly that increases your risk for prosecution.

Mental preparedness on what to do at every stage of a confrontation is good, meaning you should run through in your mind what you'll do in such a situation often enough that you are a couple of moves ahead of the other guy at every stage of the game, before, during, and after the fisticuffs.

[downwardspiral]

Michael thanks.
Tom thanks, dont seem to be able to pm you.

best wishes s

[Craig]

i think mentally i was stuck defending my position.
next time i'll let him have it.
or knock him out when he winds down the window. s

there are easier ways to resolve things. like the other say, verbal de- escalation. I go clubbing a fair bit and there's always some hot head trying to start something. being friendly and calm and is the easiest way to avoid a fight, regardless of what they say. I've had guys come up to me for no reason and go "WHAT THE F*CK ARE YOU LOOKING AT" getting in my face, I just say "oh hey man, are you having a good night? The girls are pretty hot here arent they" or something along those lines. I've offered drinks before and some of those dudes end up doing an about face and saying they have my back if anything else goes down (not that it will, and i generally dont care either way anyways - the point is they arent trying to fight me). The only street fight I've been was a guy who took a swing (well flying knee) at me without saying anything, and I just avoided him and until the bouncers were able to grab him. Unless someone is already taking swings you can ALWAYS talk your way out...abusing them and getting hot headed yourself is not the way to do that though.