Wow... they were owned...

[Doc Stier]

God wants to mingle Himself into man so that man may be His expression, His duplication.

Chris:

That's a very nice description of the Eastern Orthodox concept of Christian Theosis.


The Ladder of Divine Ascent

http://www.orthodoxinfo.com/praxis/ladder.aspx

[I-mon]

The thing I don't get is why people associate "Christ", with God? What is it about this story, this book, which makes it more believable than any other book?

Honestly, I don't get it. With all the tales of "God-Kings" and "God-men" and so on...why this guy in particular?

"God", I don't really have a problem with anymore, although I certainly used to believe that there was absolutely no point in using the word.

Anyway, carry on!

[chud]

That's a very nice description of the Eastern Orthodox concept of Christian Theosis.

Yeah, not bad Chris...your best post so far.
Doc, I think Chris mentioned earlier that he was raised in the Orthodox faith, so apparently some of it sunk in.

[Chris Fleming]

Interestingly, it wasn't until I left the Orthodox church that I learned about God becoming man so that man can become God in life and in nature (but not in the Godhead), and many other truths. This is not to say that Orthodoxy is bad--far from it. I really appreciated the deep sense of reverence and divine mystery that I felt in that church. But just saying, it didn't impart much truth or life to me. This was just my individual experience.

[DeusTrismegistus]

The thing I don't get is why people associate "Christ", with God? What is it about this story, this book, which makes it more believable than any other book?

Honestly, I don't get it. With all the tales of "God-Kings" and "God-men" and so on...why this guy in particular?

"God", I don't really have a problem with anymore, although I certainly used to believe that there was absolutely no point in using the word.

Anyway, carry on!

I personally think the common conception of Jesus being God in the flesh is adopted from earlier non christian beliefs. The same thing kind of happened with the Egyptian gods with minor variations. Many of the stories of Vishnu are also similar. I think it is what Jung would call an archetype.

I don't really buy into the Virgin birth for the same reason. It was a common fertility theme before Jesus. Also for Jesus to actually fulfill the messianic prophecy he had to be descended from Levi and Judah, the tribe of Priests and the tribe of Kings. If he was a virgin birth he would not be of the tribe of Judah.

However in the Bible it does say when Jesus was baptized, "And the holy spirit descended in bodily form like a dove upon Him, and a voice came from heaven which said, "You are my Beloved Son; in You I am well pleased."

This is resolved differently by different groups but from a mystical stand point Jesus represents the potential of Man and we are all the children of God. He said (paraphrased), "even as I do these things so shall you to and greater." He is a beacon pointing to a path that leads to knowledge of God through his teachings, not through his birth and death but through his life.

[I-mon]

[I-mon]

Thanks Deus. I can totally appreciate that view, and what you've written in previous posts on the topic.

I like a lot of the things Chris F writes about his beliefs too, I just don't understand why praise of god needs to be narrowed down into one personality. I understand and accept that it can, just don't understand the belief that it MUST be, especially when this belief is apparent in someone who seems able and even inclined towards questioning beliefs.

Sorry to single you out Chris, you just happen to be a vocal representative of this form of belief on this thread.

[I-mon]

King of Kings, Lord of Lords, Conquering Lion of the Tribe of Judah!

[nianfong]

yeah it's awesome. if I were to mass murder millions of people, but then repent and wholeheartedly accept jesus as my savior, I will go to heaven.
but if I were to spend my life like the dalai lama, helping thousands and millions, and not believe in jesus, I'm going to hell. christianity rules.

[edededed]

Yeah! The Dalai Lama even helps people indirectly, by letting them eat his holy night pellets!

[Doc Stier]

King of Kings, Lord of Lords, Conquering Lion of the Tribe of Judah!

His Imperial Majesty Emperor Haile Selassie I of Ethiopia (1892-1975)???

OK, I know that his official royal name means "Power of the Trinity", and that his family claims to be descendants of King Soloman's wife, the Queen of Sheba (Saba). But even so, I never understood why the Rastafarians considered him to be a messianic figure in their religious movement.

To these people I can only say: "Ja-maican-me-crazy, man!"


Lij Taffari Makonnen (Emperor Haile Selassie I) Coronation Portrait 1928

As a sidebar note, I personally know several of Haile Selassie's Makonnen family relatives, who are members of a local Orthodox church community here in Austin along with a number of other Ethiopian families. Good people.

[Doc Stier]

yeah it's awesome. if I were to mass murder millions of people, but then repent and wholeheartedly accept jesus as my savior, I will go to heaven.
but if I were to spend my life like the dalai lama, helping thousands and millions, and not believe in jesus, I'm going to hell. christianity rules.

Not necessarily. There are basically three views that Christians have taken with regard to non-Christians.

The first is that non-Christians will be damned because there is no salvation outside the visible Body of Christ, the Church. This is called Exclusivism.

The second is that non-Christians may be saved, regardless of the religion they practice, or even if none at all, but only through the unconditional love and merciful grace of God, an Omnipotent Being, for Whom nothing is impossible. This is called Inclusivism.

The third is that non-Christians may be saved by means of their own religions, since non-Christian religions may also contain saving truths. This is called Cultural Pluralism.

Exclusivism is viewed as clearly untenable in the Eastern Church, and is therefore properly rejected as a matter of Truth. At the other extreme, the thin ice of Cultural Pluralism is viewed as fraught with the danger of potential theological error.

Nonetheless, on the whole, Eastern Orthodoxy has maintained a 2,000 year history of tolerance for other religious faiths and beliefs, since virtually everyone who became a Christian in the earliest days of the Church was a non-Christian previously, whether Jew, pagan gentile, agnostic, atheist, or whatever.

Inclusivism has always been the generally accepted norm within the Eastern Orthodox Church as a result.

[I-mon]

that's good to hear, Doc.

IMO rastafarianism with Selassie (named Ras Tafari Makonnen at birth before his coronation) as the central figure was created out of something much older, and much more interesting in terms of practical spirituality - the tradition of the "bush doctor" with the emphasis on "roots and culture" as a way of understanding and putting modern society in a greater perspective.

Anyway, just putting it up there as another example of a cult of personality based around a guy who never asked for it, yet followed religiously as god in human form by thousands of followers.

As you probably know Doc, in the Indian philosophical traditions it is well understood that the Absolute Reality must be beyond name and form and beyond mind and matter and thus beyond conception for ordinary human states of consciouness, but even though the truth is beyond conception it is still possible and extremely beneficial to worship in whatever way is most appropriate to the individual. For most ordinary people it is perhaps easiest to evoke and then direct this feeling of divinity and worship towards something with a name and a form and various divine qualities, hence the multitude of gods within the Indian pantheon. For others it is easiest or more appropriate to worship god in human form, as an Avatar or perfect human being like Rama or Krishna. Some choose to worship the absolute reality as pure consciouness and call it Shiva, others worship the active dynamic force behind all activity and transformation in the universe and call it Shakti, and then some few try to go beyond all the names and forms.

The point of all of this is not the idea that any one of them is correct or true - the point is the feeling evoked and the mental act of worship itself - the praise of the immensity and magnificence of the one great eternal Absolute, packaged in whatever way that the individual human mind can effectively grasp.

[Michael]

Many years ago, I was beginning to date a girl, who was pretty cool,

Needless to say, that particular dating thing didn't work out very well for us.

Dmitri, Dmitri, Dmitri. Couldn't you have at least given it a try? Haven't you ever heard about conversion sex?
BTW, since you're not interested any longer...got her number?

[Felipe Bidó]

Update on Ray Comfort's Banana Affair

He apologized, and said he was not aware that modern bananas were a product artificial breeding...HOWEVER, his point still stands, since God gave man the knowledge to do that modification on the banana to make it fit into his hand...Like man did with big dogs so they can fit into his car...or small cats so they can fit on his wife's lap...tremendous.

..although after that he said there was no evidence that the modern banana was modified by man.

I like him.